Hello! Decoder senior producer Kate Cox here. I’m afraid I’m still not Nilay, but I hope you’ve been enjoying our series of guest hosts this summer while he’s out on parental leave. We have a few more really great guest episodes coming up, before Nilay returns to the host chair later this fall, so stay tuned.
The production team is taking our own break this week, so while we’re off we’re excited to share this episode of The Gray Area with you. Students all over the country — including my own kids, thank goodness — are back in school right around now, and so we thought it would be a perfect time to revisit host Sean Illing talking with journalist James Walsh about how AI tools like ChatGPT have kicked off a new cheating arms race that’s proving extremely disruptive to college education.
There are a lot of big Decoder ideas — and problems — wrapped up in all this. Okay, The Gray Area, with Sean Illing. Enjoy.
Links:
If AI can do your classwork, why go to college? | The Gray Area
Everyone Is cheating their way through college | New York Magazine
How to get students to stop using AI | Verge
I used the ‘cheat on everything’ AI tool and it didn’t help me cheat on anything | Verge
Inside the frat-bro startup that wants you to ‘cheat on everything' | SF Standard
A new headache for honest students: proving they didn’t use AI | NYT
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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57:01
Amazon is betting on agents to win the AI race
This is Alex Heath, your Thursday episode guest host and deputy editor at The Verge. One of the biggest topics in AI these days is agents — the idea that AI is going to move from chatbots to reliably completing tasks for us in the real world. But the problem with agents is that they really aren’t all that reliable right now.
There’s a lot of work happening in the AI industry to try and fix that, and that brings me to my guest today: David Luan, the head of Amazon’s AGI research lab, a cofounder of Adept, and a former VP of engineering at OpenAI. David and I discussed the release of GPT-5, what Amazon wants with agents, and where he thinks the AI race is headed next.
Read the full transcript on The Verge.
Links:
The Platonic Representation Hypothesis | Phillip Isola
Amazon plays catch-up with new Nova models to generate voices, video | Verge
Amazon’s new AI agent is designed to do your shopping | Verge
Microsoft is racing to build an AI ‘agent factory’ | Verge
OpenAI’s new ChatGPT Agent can control an entire computer | Verge
24 hours with Alexa Plus: we cooked, we chatted, and it kinda lied to me | Verge
Why AI researchers are getting paid like NBA All-Stars | Decoder
OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off — and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google | Verge
This is Big Tech’s playbook for swallowing the AI industry | Command Line
Amazon hires founders away from AI startup Adept | TechCrunch
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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53:50
How the head of Obsidian went from superfan to CEO
Obsidian is a note-taking and productivity app that occupies the same "second brain" space as competitors like Notion — but in a lot of ways, it's also startlingly different. Obsidian's files are Markdown-based, stored locally on your own devices, and completely free to use.
Steph Ango, the CEO, is also different in a lot of ways: He's not an Obsidian founder, but instead came to the role from being basically a member of the fan development community. His take on software, productivity, and business is refreshingly old-fashioned in a lot of good ways, while he's also leading a very 21st century startup.
Read the full transcript on The Verge.
Links:
I’m joining Obsidian as CEO | Obsidian Blog
About Obsidian (Manifesto) | Obsidian
Narvar acquires Lumi (2021) | Narvar
After 15 years whipping the llama’s ass, Winamp shuts down | TechCrunch
Notion’s Ivan Zhao wants you to demand better from your tools | Decoder
Book Review: “What I Talk About When I Talk About Running” | National Geographic
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt; our editor is Ursa Wright.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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ChatGPT chief Nick Turley doesn't want you too attached to AI
This is Alex Heath, your Thursday episode guest host and deputy editor at The Verge. Today, I’m talking to a very special guest: Nick Turley, OpenAI’s head of ChatGPT.
While Sam Altman is definitely the public face of OpenAI, Nick has been leading ChatGPT’s development since the very beginning, and it’s now the fastest-growing software product of all time with more than 700 million weekly users. So, Nick and I talk about the backlash against OpenAI’s removal of its GPT-4o model, the future of ChatGPT itself, solving hallucinations, and why he thinks it eventually won’t look like a chatbot at all.
Read the full transcript on The Verge.
Links:
ChatGPT won’t remove old models without warning after GPT-5 backlash | Verge
ChatGPT is bringing back 4o as an option because people missed it | Verge
GPT-5 is being released to all ChatGPT users | Verge
The 6 biggest changes coming to ChatGPT | Verge
ChatGPT has 20 million paying subscribers | Verge
Elon Musk says he’s suing Apple for rigging App Store rankings | Verge
OpenAI’s ChatGPT to hit 700 million weekly users | CNBC
Chatbots can go into a delusional spiral. Here’s how it happens | NYT
ChatGPT gave instructions for murder, self-mutilation, and devil worship | The Atlantic
‘I feel like I’m going crazy’: ChatGPT fuels delusional spirals | WSJ
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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55:14
Notion's CEO wants you to demand better from your tools
This is Casey Newton, founder and editor of Platformer and cohost of the Hard Fork podcast. This is the second episode of my productivity-focused Decoder series I’m doing while Nilay is out on parental leave.
Today, I’m talking with Notion cofounder and CEO Ivan Zhao. I’ve followed Notion for quite some time now — I’m a big fan, and I use Notion as part of my workflow with Platformer. So I was very excited to get Ivan on the show to discuss his philosophy on productivity, how he’s grown his company over the last decade, and where he sees the space going in the future.
Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.
Links:
Introducing Notion AI for Work | Notion
Notion Mail is a minimalist but powerful take on email | Verge
Notion’s new Q&A feature lets you ask an AI about your notes | Verge
Notion takes on AI notetakers with its own transcription feature | TechCrunch
The impossible dream of good workplace software | Decoder
When AI has better taste than you | Julie Zhuo / The Looking Glass
Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was editor by Xander Adams.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Decoder is a show from The Verge about big ideas — and other problems. Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel talks to a diverse cast of innovators and policymakers at the frontiers of business and technology to reveal how they’re navigating an ever-changing landscape, what keeps them up at night, and what it all means for our shared future.
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