Duologue with Leslie Heaney

Ariel Lawhon's new novel, The Pirate Queen, is out now, and it brings Grace O'Malley, a sixteenth century Irish noblewoman who became a legendary pirate, mother, and rebel, roaring back to life. It's the same instinct that shaped Ariel's earlier novels Codename Helene and I Was Anastasia: find the real woman that history left out, and let her tell the whole story.

In this conversation, Ariel tells me how she stumbled onto Grace's story at four in the morning, why she structures her novels around the maiden, mother, and matriarch phases of a woman's life, and what it actually takes to write women who get to be complicated at every age. We also get into her writing process. She's a self-described plotter who wrote her first novels in fifteen minute windows while raising four sons, and she keeps a running file of future book ideas, cleverly titled Possible Book Ideas, where stories can sit for over a decade before their moment finally arrives. She gives us a first look at what's next too: a Western she's calling Lonesome Dove, but for women.

The Pirate Queen is available now wherever books are sold.

(00:00:00) Welcome and introduction to Ariel Lawhon
(00:04:38) Growing up off-grid in Taos, New Mexico
(00:09:23) Her first novel and the friend who introduced her to her agent
(00:11:52) The email she sent with only a third of a manuscript
(00:14:08) Finding Judge Crater's story by accident
(00:16:33) Research and source material, and being on her sixth novel
(00:23:34) How every book idea has found her by accident
(00:25:51) The Frozen River and her 13-year-old file of Possible Book Ideas
(00:28:05) Plotter vs. pantser: writing in stolen time while raising four sons
(00:30:21) On inspiration: "the muse has to find you working"
(00:32:41) Why she's drawn to women with verve
(00:35:06) Writing older, more complex women into fiction
(00:37:29) Discovering Grace O'Malley at 4 a.m.
(00:39:49) Balancing Irish folklore against the English historical record
(00:42:02) The letter to Queen Elizabeth I and the meeting itself
(00:44:23) What The Pirate Queen is really about
(00:46:48) Teasing the next book: The Devil's Rope

Thanks so much for listening! If you loved this conversation, please rate, review, and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, it really does help other listeners find the show. For more from Leslie, including exclusive essays and behind-the-scenes takes on every episode, subscribe to the Duologue Substack.

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Pick up The Pirate Queen wherever books are sold!

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Surviving 9/11: my friend of over thirty years, Tim Grant, is speaking publicly for the first time about what happened to him that morning. Tim was on the 105th floor of the South Tower at the World Trade Center — one of only a handful of people who made it out from that floor and above. In this conversation, he walks me through that day minute by minute: the heat and fireball when the first plane hit the tower next door, his decision to leave his desk immediately rather than wait for instructions, and the more than one hundred flights of stairs he descended, which grew far more crowded and much slower once the second plane struck his own building while he was already partway down, around the 60th floor. He also describes his desperate attempt afterward to reach his fiancée from a payphone with no cell service working. Twenty-five years later, Tim opens up about what came after — the funerals, becoming a father, and how that morning has shaped the way he's lived every day since.

(00:00:00) Intro
(00:03:31) Tim's morning on September 11th before anything happened
(00:07:09) Feeling the heat from the first plane hitting Tower One
(00:09:55) Tim's decision to leave his desk immediately
(00:13:08) Descending to the 78th floor with Rob and Tom
(00:18:00) The second plane hits Tim's own building
(00:25:01) Reaching the bottom and the devastation outside
(00:44:03) Life after 9/11 — funerals, family, and moving forward
(00:47:58) Tim's message on what he wants us to remember

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Fashion designer Lela Rose has spent almost thirty years building her ready-to-wear and bridal label. But when she left New York for Jackson Hole, Wyoming, she opened something completely different — a tiny log cabin store called Lela Rose Ranch. In this episode of our summer travel series, Lela shares her story and her full guide to Jackson Hole, from the best hikes to a night out at the Cowboy Bar.

(00:00:00) Intro
(00:00:14) Lela's 29 years in fashion and how she got started
(00:03:55) Neiman Marcus, quality control, and early lessons
(00:05:25) From ready-to-wear to bridal
(00:11:47) Leaving New York for Jackson Hole during COVID
(00:08:27) Opening the Lela Rose Ranch log cabin store
(00:22:09) What to pack for Jackson Hole
(00:22:23) Where to stay and where to eat
(00:35:06) Best hikes and outdoor adventures
(00:27:04) Entertaining outdoors and her two books

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Nick Mele has spent his whole life in Newport, Rhode Island — and turned his eye for that world into a career photographing it, in a style Town and Country refers to as "the Slim Aarons of our time." He's also the photographer behind the book A Newport Summer, his love letter to the place he grew up. On this episode, Nick shares where to stay, where to eat, and the local-only spots most visitors never find — everything you need for a perfect Newport summer weekend.

(00:00:00) Introduction
(00:35:55) Where to stay in Newport
(00:40:27) Where to eat and drink
(00:44:56) Cliff Walk and Rejects Beach
(00:47:20) Mansions, Newport Film, and museum culture
(00:52:30) Festivals, car shows, and Coaching Weekend
(00:56:22) Family-friendly spots outside town
(01:07:00) Outro

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Sarah Wetenhall had never worked in hospitality when she and her husband decided, almost on a dare, to buy The Colony Hotel in Palm Beach. She joins me to talk about turning decades as a guest into two of the most in-demand boutique hotels in the country, and what it took to build The Hedges Inn in East Hampton next.

(00:00) Introduction
(02:00) The Colony: family history & buying in with zero experience
(06:39) Deciding to buy The Hedges
(09:00) Opening The Hedges & bringing Swifty's east
(11:22) Inside the guest experience
(13:35) Local recs: restaurants, shops & hidden gems
(27:24) The Ina Garten story
(29:43) Best times to visit East Hampton
(32:00) What's next for Sarah and Andrew
(34:25) Community programming: Conversations at the Hedges
(39:10) Wrap-up

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