Mark Leonard's World in 30 Minutes

This week, Mark Leonard is joined by Loubna El Amine, lecturer in political theory at King’s College London and affiliate of the Lau China Institute, and Cobus van Staden, head of research at the China-Global South Project. They draw on insights from Africa and the Middle East to examine how younger generations in these regions view China, Europe and the US, and together they discuss the new “China-native generation”.

Cobus explains why many young Africans increasingly associate China with modernity, technological progress and economic opportunity, while Loubna posits that, in the Middle East, China is often viewed less as an aspirational model. Instead, China has become more of a counterweight to US influence—it is a relatively neutral actor and potential balancing force in the Middle East’s changing geopolitical landscape.

Together, Mark, Cobus and Loubna explore whether a new post-Western, rather than anti-Western, generation is emerging. They discuss the political consequences of China’s growing presence, the legacy of colonialism and the challenges of building intellectual and economic connections beyond traditional Western frameworks.
How is China changing ideas of development across Africa? Why does it occupy such a different place in the Middle Eastern political imagination? Can South-South partnerships create new pathways for growth and influence? And what do these changes mean for Europe’s relationships throughout the world?

This podcast episode was recorded on July 10th 2026.

Bookshelf

How China Escaped the Poverty Trap by Yuen Yuen Ang
Fire in Every Direction by Tarek Baconi
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This week, Mark Leonard welcomes Camille Grand, secretary general of ASD Europe and special adviser to ECFR’s European Security programme, and Marta Prochwicz Jazowska, deputy head of ECFR’s Warsaw office and policy fellow, to discuss what the outcome of the NATO summit in Ankara means for Europe’s security. They draw on ECFR’s recent policy brief “Making defence European again” to assess whether the alliance has emerged stronger—or simply avoided a crisis.

European leaders left Ankara relieved that US president Donald Trump has reaffirmed US support for NATO and avoided announcing major troop withdrawals, but fundamental questions about Washington’s long-term commitment remain unresolved. Mark, Camille and Marta explore how Europe can strengthen its own defence capabilities while maintaining NATO as the cornerstone of collective security.

Can Europe build the military capabilities it still lacks? How should responsibilities be divided between NATO, the EU and smaller coalitions of willing states? What would a more credible European nuclear deterrent look like? And can Europe strengthen its own defence without weakening the transatlantic alliance?

This podcast episode was recorded on July 9th 2026.

Bookshelf ·
The Sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark ·
The Great Delusion by John J. Mearsheimer
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This week, Mark Leonard welcomes Célia Belin, head of ECFR’s Paris office and senior policy fellow, and Jeremy Cliffe, ECFR’s editorial director and senior policy fellow, to discuss Marine Le Pen’s decision to run in France’s 2027 presidential election.

After a Paris appeal court ruling rescinded her ban from holding public office, Le Pen has reasserted leadership of the far-right National Rally (RN) and sidelined Jordan Bardella, who was widely expected to lead the party into the 2027 election. Her announcement has led to rivals across the centre and the left recalibrating their strategies in an already volatile political landscape.

Together, Mark, Célia and Jeremy explore how Le Pen’s candidacy changes France’s electoral outlook. They discuss whether she is a stronger candidate than Bardella, how French political parties are preparing for an election that RN enters as the favourite, and they draw on ECFR research to examine what an RN presidency could mean in practice.

Would a Le Pen government seek confrontation with Brussels? How might it reshape France’s approach to migration, the EU budget and European integration? Could nationalist governments across Europe really cooperate? And how would a Le Pen presidency impact relations with Ukraine, the US and France’s European allies?

This podcast episode was recorded on July 8th 2026.

Bookshelf

Marie Antoinette by Stefan Zweig
Muskism by Quinn Slobodian and Ben Tarnoff
If Bardella wins: Scenarios for a far-right presidency in France by Célia Belin, Jeremy Cliffe, Camille Lons and Constance Victor
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This week, Mark Leonard speaks to Mike Kuiken, vice chair of the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission, and Randy Schriver, chair of the commission and former US assistant secretary of defence for Indo-Pacific security affairs, about US-China relations in this period of heightened geopolitical uncertainty.

The war in Iran and Russia’s war against Ukraine are raising questions about the balance between the Indo-Pacific and other global theatres. Together, Mark, Mike and Randy discuss the implications of China’s support for Russia and Iran, competition in emerging technologies such as AI, biotechnology and quantum computing, and whether the United Nations could be an arena for strategic rivalry. How is the conflict in the Middle East affecting America’s Indo-Pacific strategy? How would a crisis over Taiwan impact global semiconductor supply chains? And what do these developments mean for Europe?

This podcast episode was recorded on April 23rd 2026.

Bookshelf
Freedom’s forge by Arthur Herman

The Island at the Center of the World by Russell Shorto

Acquired

Wall-e
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It is ten years since Britain’s decision to leave the European Union, and the country is once again facing political upheaval. Keir Starmer has resigned as prime minister after his Labour rival Andy Burnham’s decisive victory in the Makerfield by-election. At the same time, ECFR has released new research which suggests that the public view on Brexit has evolved significantly—despite much of the political debate still being rooted in the divisions of 2016.

This week, Mark Leonard speaks with Marcus Roberts, CEO of Mandate Research and longtime Labour strategist, about how attitudes towards Brexit have changed and what this means for Britain’s political future. A decade on from Brexit, British politics remains turbulent, but public opinion is changing in ways that many politicians have failed to recognise.

Bookshelf

ECFR policy brief: Brexit isn’t working: British voters are ready for a European future

This podcast was recorded on June 24th 2026
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