Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change

Around two-thirds of the energy we put into today’s energy system ends up as rejected heat. So are we measuring the energy transition all wrong?
Professor Jan Rosenow joins Michael Liebreich to unpack the “primary energy fallacy”: why focusing on the energy going into the system can obscure the useful energy we actually get out.
They explore why electrification can dramatically reduce energy demand, and what genuine systems thinking means for efficiency, waste heat and infrastructure. They also examine hydrogen versus electrification, including Jan’s review of more than 60 independent studies on hydrogen for heating, why hydrogen continues to attract support despite its disadvantages in many end uses, and how incumbent industries resist technological change.
Key topics discussed:
The primary energy fallacy
Why useful energy matters
The hidden inefficiency of fossil fuels
Electrification and shrinking energy demand
Rethinking energy efficiency through systems thinking
Making better use of waste heat
Why energy statistics can misrepresent the transition
Hydrogen vs electrification for heating
Why incumbent technologies resist change
Leadership Circle
Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.
Links:
Jan Rosenow’s bio: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/find-an-expert/professor-jan-rosenow
Jan Rosenow’s Substack: https://janrosenow.substack.com/
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Sankey Diagram: https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/sites/flowcharts/files/2026-08/2024-us-energy-flowchart-homepage.jpg
Michael Liebreich’s “The Five Superheroes Of The Transition” article: https://about.bnef.com/insights/clean-energy/liebreich-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-ii-easier/
Our World In Data Energy Consumption Chart: https://ourworldindata.org/energy-production-consumption
Innovation and Its Enemies: Why People Resist New Technologies book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Innovation-Its-Enemies-People-Technologies/dp/019046703
Jonathan Maxwell on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcN3Bqq8ehA
Rob Dunn on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juAyLAUmU3w
Jorgo Chatzimarkakis on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NCiEhprSOc
Subscribe to Cleaning Up’s newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/
Acronyms:
LNG: Liquefied Natural Gas
IEA: International Energy Agency,
EIA: Energy Information Administration.
IIASA: International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis
OECD: Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
07:34 Primary Energy Fallacy
15:14 Fossil Fuel Inefficiency
24:44 Rethinking Energy Efficiency
27:05 Using Waste Heat
35:00 Misleading Energy Statistics
43:12 Hydrogen vs Electrification
49:48 Resisting Technological Change
58:00 Hydrogen Europe
01:03:14 Outro

More than 80% of the world’s advanced AI compute is concentrated in the US and China. For Europe and other middle powers, the question may no longer be how to win the AI race, but how to avoid becoming dangerously dependent on those that do.
This week on Cleaning Up, James Cameron, Chair of Cleaning Up’s Editorial Council, takes over as guest host. He speaks with Sam Winter-Levy, Senior Fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, and Afonso Salema, CEO of Exus Digital and founder of TerraByte Data Centers, about how compute is becoming a strategic resource.
They explore how access to power and the grid is shaping where billions of dollars of AI infrastructure gets built, and how data centres could become a source of geopolitical leverage. They also discuss the security and public backlash facing this critical infrastructure, and whether AI’s enormous appetite for electricity could ultimately accelerate the clean energy transition.
Topics covered in this episode:
Compute as a strategic resource
The US-China race for AI
Why Europe is falling behind
AI’s rapidly growing electricity demand
Where the world builds data centres
Protecting data centres from attack
Weaponising chips and AI access
The political backlash against data centres
Can AI accelerate clean energy?
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.
Links:
Afonso Salema’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/afonso-salema-336320/
Sam Winter-Levy’s bio: https://carnegieendowment.org/people/sam-winter-levy
James Cameron’s bio: https://www.james-cameron.co.uk/bio
Cleaning Up 235. Inside Start Campus, Europe’s largest data centre: https://youtu.be/juAyLAUmU3w
James Cameron on Cleaning Up in 2020: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn7GKiW5E4k
James Cameron on Cleaning Up in 2025: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPPjAbSxl5c
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/
The Stanford 2026 AI index: https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report
Edelman Trust in AI poll: https://www.edelman.com/trust/2025/trust-barometer/report-tech-sector
Acronyms:
AWS: Amazon Web Services
NIMBY: "Not In My Back Yard"
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
02:02 AI, security, geopolitics
05:01 Compute as power
11:34 The global AI race
14:07 Building data centres
18:02 Defending critical infrastructure
23:53 Who pays for security?
29:24 Designing for resilience
32:48 Weaponising AI access
40:02 Data centre backlash
49:56 The balance of power
54:09 Can Europe catch up?
59:43 AI and clean energy
01:04:01 Outro

Can Mexico build an electric car for $8,000, and use it to create an entirely new domestic industry? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington visits Mexico City to sit down with Roberto Capuano, director of the Olinia Project, and discuss the state-backed effort to develop a new generation of affordable electric mini-vehicles.
Roberto explains why Olinia is designing small EVs specifically around the needs of Mexican cities, how partnerships with Chinese suppliers could accelerate technology transfer, and why price rather than subsidies could ultimately drive EV adoption. They also discuss Mexico's ambitions beyond its domestic market, with potential demand across Latin America and even East Africa.
Topics discussed in this episode:
Why Mexico wants its own carmaker
Electrifying Mexico City's public transport
The rise of electric mini-cars
Building an $8,000 Mexican EV
Why Olinia is partnering with China
The state's role in carmaking
Building a Latin American EV market
Can Olinia deliver by 2027?
Leadership Circle:
Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live.
Links:
Roberto Capuano’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roberto-capuano/
Olinia Project: https://www.olinia.auto/
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/
OEM: Original Equipment Manufacturer
BRT: Bus Rapid Transit
R&D: Research & Development
ICE: Internal Combustion Engine
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
02:15 Electrifying Mexico City
10:33 Olinia's Origins
11:58 Mini Electric Cars
18:48 Made in Mexico
21:25 State-Led Industry
30:33 Chinese Supply Chains
36:31 The $8,000 EV
40:01 Charging Infrastructure
42:54 Global Ambitions
45:43 Scaling Olinia
48:40 Software and Autonomy
50:01 Political Longevity
55:31 Outro

Can the Philippines become a testbed for Southeast Asia’s clean-tech future?

Kicking off Season 19 of Cleaning Up, guest host Marie Cheong meets Jaime Z. Urquijo, Urban Estates Group Head at Ayala Land, one of the Philippines is largest real estate and development companies.

Ayala Land is a subsidiary of the Ayala Corporation, which has been part of the Philippines' economic story for almost 200 years, and ACEN, its energy platform, has gone from a standing start in 2011 to more than 7GW of renewable capacity across Asia-Pacific.

Marie and Jaime explore how the Philippines can build cleaner energy, transport and cities from the start while its economy and population continue to grow. They discuss replacing coal with renewables, retiring coal plants early, building resilient cities and making growth less carbon-intensive. From batteries and rooftop solar to green steel and electric buses, they ask what it will take for the Philippines to leapfrog to a cleaner, more resilient economy.

Topics covered in this conversation:

The Philippines' clean-energy challenge

Can growth be decoupled from emissions?

Making corporate sustainability profitable

ACEN's renewable-energy transformation

Southeast Asia's renewable-energy gold rush

Can coal plants retire early?

Building resilient cities for climate

Electric buses and better transport

Green steel and cleaner construction

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Links:

Jaime Urquijo’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaime-urquijo-96526799/

Ayala Corporation: https://ayala.com/

Ayala Land: https://ayalaland.com/

ACEN: https://www.acenrenewables.com/about-us/

Monsoon Wind Project: https://www.monsoonwindasia.com/

Marie's past appearance on Cleaning Up: https://youtu.be/RE2ZeGd8aaI

Acronyms:

WBCSD: World Business Council for Sustainable Development

BPO: Business Process Outsourcing

SBTI: Science Based Targets Initiative.

MDC: Makati Development Corporation.

EDC: The Energy Development Corporation

EPIRA: Electric Power Industry Reform Act

FIT: Feed-In Tariff

ETM: Energy Transition Mechanism

BRT: Bus Rapid Transit System

ICE: Internal Combustion Engine

LGU: Local Government Unit

Chapters:

00:00: Intro

04:34: The Philippines

07:49: Ayala's history

10:42: Sustainability strategy

16:16: Net zero

27:32: Energy liberalisation

34:09: Regional challenges

36:27: Coal retirement

42:07: Resilient cities

47:45: Green steel

52:14: Green construction

54:55: Innovation tailwinds

58:27: Energy decentralisation

59:07: Future growth

01:01:43: Outro

Australia has become a laboratory for the energy transition, what can the rest of the world learn? After two weeks travelling across Australia and meeting the leaders shaping its energy transition, Michael Liebreich got a close up view of the country’s transformation.

For the final episode of Cleaning Up’s Deep Dive Australia series, the host becomes the guest as Anna Freeman of the Energy Efficiency Council turns the tables and puts Michael in the hot seat to ask him what he has learned.

Michael divides his takeaways into the good, the less good and the “downright ugly”, from Australia’s extraordinary rooftop solar and battery uptake to its struggles with wind, transmission and diesel. He also asks whether the country really can become a clean energy superpower, and what its successes and failures can teach the rest of the world.

Topics covered in this episode:

Australia’s rooftop solar advantage

Why batteries are beating gas

The missing middle of electrification

Can transmission keep up?

Australia’s expensive wind problem

The China challenge

Breaking the diesel addiction

Why EVs may be finally taking off

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live

Australia Deep Dive Episodes:

Darren Miller: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBhkBTZ9lSI&t=2s

Chris Bowen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYtapcSdZOo&t=132s

Marc England https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tKVSJcS_SI&t=2s

Lily D'Ambrosio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVGL9vVTdeY

Ross Garnaut: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmcm2M5eRxk&t=35s

David Pocock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgbq5r3XTJY

Paul Simshauser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZKxb2TnD04

Martin Green: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgqXnnvlMFg

Links:

Anna Freeman’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annafreeman1/

The Energy Efficiency Council: https://eec.org.au

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/

Stats on Seaborne Trade of diesel: https://ieefa.org/resources/oil-shocks-expose-limits-monetary-policy

John Pettigrew on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Lg1A958aA&t=5s

Tim Meyerjürgens on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQgUuJ-dx78&t=16s

Leo Birnbaum on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa-DHuPNEDg

Andrew Forrest on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYQmEipY5Wc

Acronyms:

IRENA: International Renewable Energy Agency

EMA: Energy Market Operator

DNSP: Distribution Network Service Provider

REZ: Renewable Energy Zones

AEMO: Australian Energy Market Operator

Chapters:

00:00: Intro

05:45: Solar Adoption

10:25: Big Batteries

13:41: The Missing Middle

19:26: Transmission Grids

21:35: Australia’s Wind Problem

32:43: China’s Superpower

40:53: The Diesel Addiction

45:24: EV Adoption

52:58 Lack Of Transparency

56:19 Michael’s Highlights

01:14:00: Outro