The Business of Fashion Podcast

In March, H&M released financial results alongside its annual sustainability report, presenting two seemingly contrasting narratives. The company reported a 34.6 percent reduction in emissions from 2019 levels and also noted that 91 percent of its materials are now sustainably sourced. However, this environmental progress occurred alongside a 1 percent dip in sales, raising questions about the commercial viability of its green strategy.

While many industry peers are backing away from environmental messaging to focus on the bottom line, H&M is arguing that sustainability is not in tension with profit, but is rather a "core driver of future growth".

On The Debrief, we examine whether this decoupling of growth from environmental impact can truly resonate with consumers, or if it remains a purely internal metric.

Key Insights:


As a fast fashion brand, H&M understands that sustainability alone is not going to win back shoppers. Instead, Walid says the company is trying to translate its recent efforts into something more tangible at the point of purchase. The pitch is not that consumers care about emissions reporting in itself, but that sustainability can function as a marker of quality. As Leyla Ertur, H&M’s Head of Sustainability, told Walid during their conversation, “Our customers don’t care about our Scope 3 emissions going down. What they care about is what they’re buying.”

Walid suggests that one of H&M’s biggest challenges is the disconnect between how the company sees itself and how customers perceive it. “When we say H&M, I think people are thinking of H&M, the brand … But when H&M talks about itself, they’re talking [about] the whole conglomerate,” she says, pointing to brands like COS and Weekday, which occupy a more elevated position. While those labels may successfully compete with higher-end high street players, that distinction is largely invisible to consumers, who still associate H&M with “fast fashion … something cheap for an occasion.” As a result, while the group may understand how to build more premium propositions across its portfolio, Walid argues that the core H&M brand itself has not yet meaningfully shifted perception.

For all the company’s investments and emissions reductions, the core contradiction remains that H&M is still producing and selling huge volumes of clothing. Waleed is explicit about that limitation: “They’re not addressing the overconsumption and overproduction problem in fashion.” At the same time, she notes that H&M is one of the few large players still investing at scale in decarbonisation, water reduction and supply chain upgrades.

H&M is investing across sustainability, brand elevation and new channels like resale, but Waleed cautions that it is still too early to judge whether these efforts are working. “They use all these different levers that don’t come into one … There needs to be a way to bring that together,” she says. Initiatives like fashion week shows, collaborations and younger-facing campaigns are designed to re-engage consumers, but “I don’t think people have caught traction … just yet.” For now, the strategy remains a long-term bet rather than a proven turnaround.

Additional Resources:
Exclusive: H&M Says Sustainability Is Good for Business. Can It Get Shoppers to Care?
BoF Analysis: The Rise of Ultra-Fast Fashion Players
The Game of ‘Selling’ Sustainability

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Faye McLeod has built a body of work that sits at the intersection of retail, image-making and brand building. During her 16-year tenure at Louis Vuitton, she created some of the luxury industry’s most visible physical expressions – from windows and façades to fashion show sets. In that time, she helped define how the house translated its image from the runway and the archive into public-facing experiences around the world.

“I love the fact that the windows are a democratic space. You’re talking to the people on pavements – people can love it or not, and that’s okay,” she says. “You can’t retouch or hide anything. You’ve just got to be authentically you. And I think that’s what I’m really good at – being just me.”

Now in a new phase of her career, McLeod is building her studio, Closer, bringing her special mix of emotion, world-building and collaboration to other brands and clients.

On this week’s episode of BoF Podcast, McLeod joins BoF founder and CEO Imran Amed to discuss her path into window design, the emotional logic behind her creative process, and why she decided this was the right moment to strike out on her own.

Key Insights:

Windows are where luxury meets the street. McLeod describes window design not as a decorative retail function but as one of fashion’s most public-facing forms of communication — a place where a brand has to earn attention in real time. What draws her to the medium is precisely that lack of control. “I love the fact that the windows are a democratic space,” she says. “You’re talking to the people on pavements.”

Her instinct for contained spaces comes from somewhere deeper than design training. McLeod links her creative process to a traumatic childhood accident. At the age of five, she fell down a deep hole in the desert in Al Ain, United Arab Emirates and spent hours trapped in what she describes as a concrete box, using imagination and inner resolve to survive. She now sees that experience as formative. “I had to go inside myself to survive. I had to use my imagination,” she says. “I’m good at designing in a contained space.”

The audience feedback completes the work. McLeod returns to the idea that creative concepts only fully come alive when people respond in ways you could not have planned. “What I love about what we do is watching the crowd sing back,” she says. “It’s something you cannot control with creative. You just put it out into the universe and see what happens.” In Chengdu, people queued with scissors to cut off pieces of the tail and take them home as souvenirs.

Her work is built collectively, not individually. Despite the scale and visibility of the projects she discusses, McLeod is emphatic that none of them are authored alone. “It’s not just about one person, it’s about everybody,” she says. “It’s an orchestra and you just find your place.”

Her philosophy is simple: pour love into the work. Looking back on her career, she says what she wishes she had known earlier was not a strategic lesson but an emotional one: to trust herself more, let anxiety matter less and commit fully to what she was making. “I wish I knew you just had to pour love into everything you do,” she says. “I just get a big jar of love and I pour it right on top of everything.”

Additional Resources:
Faye McLeod | BoF 500 | The People Shaping the Global Fashion Industry
Role Call | Faye McLeod, Visual Image Director | BoF
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For years, Revolve was fashion retail’s byword for influencer marketing, particularly around its over-the-top Coachella event. But as the Instagram aesthetic matures and the cost of human-led marketing rises, the company is pivoting. The new mandate? To become as much an AI powerhouse as it is a party-hosting fashion giant.

In a recent conversation with Retail Editor Cathaleen Chen, Revolve founders Michael Mente and Mike Karanikolas argued that AI isn't just a buzzword for the board; it’s the engine that will sustain their multi-billion dollar dominance.

Chen joined The Debrief to talk about how Revolve is pushing the limits of how AI can be used in retail, and whether its strategy is working.

Key Insights:

Revolve was founded by software engineers who viewed fashion as an e-commerce "white space,” setting it apart from rivals that invested in new technologies only after establishing themselves in the marketplace. "While Revolve looks like a Shopbop or a Net-a-Porter... Revolve is actually built like a data science company." said retail editor Cathaleen Chen.
Revolve differentiates itself by building its own tools where possible, rather than buying off-the-shelf software, including the product search on its website. Using AI, Revolve has moved beyond literal keyword matching to a system that understands the vibe or occasion a customer is shopping for. By analyzing image attributes, the site can surface the perfect "party dress" even if that specific tag doesn't exist, explains Chen. "What their AI tool is able to do is pull up anything that is sequined... or textured... it is anticipating the desire."
Revolve fosters a "bottom-up" environment where every employee is encouraged to experiment with AI. They aren't just looking for "moonshots"; they value any application that moves the needle even slightly. "Eeven if something improves efficiency or output by just 1%, that's considered a success,” said Chen.

Additional Resources:
Why Revolve Can’t Stop Talking About AI | BoF
Why Fashion Doesn’t Talk About How It Uses AI | BoF
Why Revolve Is Embracing Brick-and-Mortar | BoF
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Volkan Yilmaz — known to his millions of followers as Tanner Leatherstein — grew up in his family's tannery in Turkey, learning to convert raw animal hides into finished leather from the age of eleven.

That foundation took him through an improbable journey: a failed business venture in Turkmenistan, a green card lottery win, years driving trucks and cabs across New Jersey and Chicago, an MBA, a brief stint in management consulting he couldn't stand, an Etsy shop he built from scratch — and eventually, almost by accident, a viral video that changed everything.

He started cutting luxury bags open. Applying acetone to test the finish. Burning the leather to verify tanning claims. Scratching the hardware to see what's underneath. And asking, what are you really paying for?

“At upwards of $500, they’re not selling you a leather bag, they’re selling you a signal of status loaded on, hopefully, a good leather bag,” he says. “If I’m a customer of this brand paying $3,000, I know I’m buying a status signal, but at least I deserve the best quality of materials and craftsmanship.”

Leatherstein joined BoF founder Imran Amed at our London offices to discuss what he's found inside some of the world's most famous handbags, what it tells us about the relationship between price and quality in luxury, and what he believes comes next for an industry under growing pressure from consumers who are no longer willing to take marketing at face value.

The tannery is where his authority comes from. Yilmaz grew up in his father's Turkish tannery, learning to select raw skins and work through the chemistry of tanning from the age of eleven. That early immersion — sensory, unglamorous, technical — is what allows him to read a bag's construction in ways most consumers cannot. "I was so fascinated how this smelly dirty bloody trash turns into a luxury fabric at the end of that process," he recalls. "Like alchemy."

The path to the camera was as unlikely as the path to leather. Before building a following of millions, Yilmaz had to overcome a conviction that he was ill-suited for on-screen performance. The shift came while filming a charitable appeal — nervous, voice shaking, but he got through it. "I realised this is just a decision I made and I could change it," he says. The inner voice that tells us what we can't do, he argues, is often just a choice we forgot we made.

His methodology is deceptively simple. Every review follows the same sequence: an acetone test to strip the finish and reveal the base material underneath, a hardware scratch test, a flame test to verify tanning claims, and a cost-of-goods estimate to calculate the retail multiplier. "The finish is the makeup on the bag," he explains. "I'm trying to see how much makeup is on it." At the luxury tier, he says a multiplier of fifteen to twenty times is not atypical.

Status signalling is real — but it comes with obligations. Yilmaz doesn't dismiss luxury pricing as a con. If status is what the customer is paying for, that's a legitimate transaction. But it's not a blank cheque. "If I'm a customer paying $3,000, I know I'm buying a status signal — but at least I deserve the best quality of materials and craftsmanship," he says. "What surprised me in these dissections is that sometimes I couldn't even find that."

Luxury isn't ending, but it needs to become something else. Challenger brands have proven that very good leather goods are achievable at the $500–600 price point, and Yilmaz believes that will pull consumers away from the traditional luxury tier. The brands that survive will be those that find a new reason to be desired — beyond logo recognition and price inflation alone. "I don't think it's the end of luxury," he says. "It's just an evolution."

Additional Resources:
From Critic to Craftsman: Tanner Leatherstein’s Next Chapter | BoF
Volkan Yilmaz | BoF 500 | The People Shaping the Global Fashion Industry
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For years, European luxury brands set the pace in fashion, while American labels were often dismissed as overly commercial and too broadly distributed to compete at the highest end of the market.

But that balance is shifting. As many European luxury houses struggle with slowing demand, price resistance and creative inconsistency, a group of American brands is seeing renewed momentum.

On the episode, Diana Pearl joins Sheena Butler-Young and Brian Baskin to unpack what those brands are getting right, and why their recent success may offer a useful playbook for the rest of the industry.

Key Insights:

Pearl argues that part of the shift comes down to timing. American brands like Coach, Ralph Lauren and Tory Burch went through their overexposure phase years ago and were forced to correct course, while European luxury brands are only now grappling with the consequences of aggressive growth. “European brands maybe got a little cocky,” she says. “They raised prices too much and maybe let the creative slide a little. I think as those businesses have grown, it just became more about sales and less about focusing on the core of the business.” By contrast, American brands “really had to recalibrate, pull back, think about who is our core customer and laser in on that message.”
Pearl presents Coach as the clearest example of how this American reset has worked. Instead of chasing quick expansion, the brand spent years refining its identity, sharpening its offer and building around a defined consumer. “They want to be that first luxury bag purchase that someone makes when they’re in high school, when they get their first job and save up to buy a nice bag,” she says. That focus shapes everything from product to casting to marketing tone. Just as importantly, Coach stopped cycling through products too quickly. Rather than dropping a hit bag and moving on, “when they see these silhouettes start to pop off, they find ways to iterate them,” Pearl says, pointing to the Tabby and the Brooklyn as examples.

Pearl says European luxury’s current problems are not just about price, but about value and treatment. Consumers have become more sensitive to whether products feel worth the money and whether the shopping experience feels inviting. “People don’t want to spend their money at a place where they feel like they’re being mistreated,” she says, referring to growing frustration with intimidating store environments, long queues and rigid service hierarchies. She also argues that “cachet can only get you so far,” especially when shoppers no longer feel that the biggest European brands are producing the most desirable or practical items.

Another theme in Pearl’s reporting is consistency. Several American brands now doing well are still shaped by founder-led or founder-adjacent creative visions, and she suggests that stability matters. “Even if consumers don’t necessarily know that creative directors are changing, they see it in how a brand feels inconsistent from season to season,” she says. With Tory Burch, Ralph Lauren and Khaite, the creative point of view feels legible and sustained. That makes it easier to build a coherent world around the brand and evolve it gradually, rather than asking consumers to reset every few years with a new designer era.

Additional Resources:
What European Luxury Can Learn From American Fashion | BoF
The Great Fashion Reset | How to Fix Luxury’s Trust Issues | BoF
The Great Fashion Reset: Can Designer Debuts Revive Luxury? | The Debrief | BoF

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