Design Systems Podcast

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.As AI compresses the distance between idea and execution, the abstractions that once made design tools necessary are becoming points of friction. In this conversation, Knapsack leaders Chris Strahl, Evan Lovely, and Robin Cannon make the case that the future of digital production starts in the medium products actually ship in, code. They unpack why design systems are infrastructure, not artifacts, how context becomes the critical input for enterprise AI, and why creating directly in code unlocks faster iteration with higher fidelity. This shift changes who gets to create, how teams work together, and what it means to scale ideas instead of just processes.In this episode, you’ll hear about:AI as an enabler of human creativity, not a replacementWhy prototype-first workflows are breaking downHow the Intelligent Product Engine supports real product creationWhat it looks like for designers, developers, and product teams to build, refine, and ship togetherView the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestEvan Lovely is the co-founder and CTO of KnapsackRobin Cannon is the Head of Product at KnapsackHostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.How do teams turn accessibility from individual effort into system wide practice? Chris talks with Anna Thielke, founder and CEO of Mantis and Company, to find out. They explore why representation on system teams leads to better standards, how designing for the edges strengthens products for everyone, and what it takes for accessibility work to spread across large organizations in a sustainable way. Anna also shares how lived experience shapes her perspective and why accessibility becomes more effective when teams view it as shared responsibility rather than a late stage requirement.Key TakeawaysDesign systems provide the structure needed to scale accessibility across teams.Representation on system teams shapes the standards that reach every product.Designing for the edges leads to more inclusive and resilient experiences.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestAnna Thielke is an entrepreneur and systems thinker who leads Mantis & Co., a disability-owned accessibility and inclusive design agency. Drawing on 15+ years of experience and her background as a blind, neurodivergent leader, she helps teams build products and cultures that work for everyone. Previously Director of Inclusive Design at CVS Health, Anna is known for blending creativity, honesty, and practicality to move organizations from intention to action.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.If you’ve ever struggled to balance perfection with business reality, this episode is for you. In this episode of the Design Systems Podcast, Chris Strahl talks with Noelle Lansford, founder of Shep, about why chasing the “perfect system” often breaks more than it fixes. Drawing on her experience across startups and Fortune 5 companies, Noelle argues that design systems succeed when they serve people and the business—not when they chase architectural purity. She and Chris dig into the realities of relational alignment between design, engineering, and product, the shift from component factories to consulting mindsets, and what AI means for the next generation of design leadership.Here’s what stood out:Perfection shouldn’t be your goalDesign systems teams should pursue an infrastructure + enablement structureSystems of systems thinking works—if the cultural conditions are rightAI makes iteration faster, which makes human oversight more essentialView the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestNoelle Lansford began her career as an engineer on design system teams before transitioning into design, where she discovered her passion for connecting the technical and human sides of digital product creation. Today, as the founder of Shep, a design systems consultancy that partners with organizations from early-stage startups to Fortune 5 companies, Noelle helps bridge the gap between design, engineering, and business strategy. Her work focuses on creating systems that balance structure with flexibility, prioritize people over process, and deliver lasting business value instead of chasing perfection.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.In this episode, Chris Strahl talks with Elyse Holladay—staff design engineer at Color Health and host of On Theme—about the evolution of design systems and how AI is reshaping the way we think about abstraction, collaboration, and contribution. They explore what it means to maintain relevance in a landscape where LLMs increasingly influence product development, and reflect on whether design systems are still for people—or for machines. Elyse shares a clear-eyed yet optimistic take on how AI can enhance, rather than replace, the work of design system practitioners.Key Points:Design systems are shifting focus from components to solving collaboration and workflow problems.AI isn’t replacing systems—it’s changing how they’re used and what they need to support.Smaller teams can move faster by focusing on what’s most valuable, not doing everything.Documentation is evolving to prioritize practical guidance over polished presentations.Design systems are becoming infrastructure for both humans and AI.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestElyse Holladay (she/her) is a long-time Design Systems practitioner and speaker, currently the Staff Design Engineer for Color Health's Continuum Design System. She was tapped to start the first Design System team for Indeed, has taught hundreds of hours of technical training content, and has been invited to speak at well-known industry events such as Clarity Conference, CSSConf Berlin, and Frontend Design Conference. She is also the host of On Theme: Design Systems in Depth. She's a technical generalist, off-the-charts extrovert, avid reader, and expat Texan with an armadillo tattoo.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.Design systems aren’t just a UI toolkit—they’re the backbone of digital product creation and management. In this episode, engineer and researcher Steve Dodier-Lazaro joins Chris Strahl to unpack why treating design systems like standalone products is holding teams back. They explore what it really takes to scale product design and development in enterprise environments—from shared tooling and token standards to how AI and LLMs can bridge messy, real-world workflows.In this episode:Why design systems are dependencies, not deliverablesTools and standards shaping the future of digital productionHow AI will reshape the infrastructure behind design and engineeringView the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestSteve Dodier-Lazaro is a freelance software engineer specialised in design systems and frontend development based in Seine Saint-Denis, France. Steve is dedicated to advancing the design system tooling ecosystem through his open-source contributions as a community advocate, addon author and contributor to Storybook, and through projects around design token tooling.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.