Talkhouse Podcast

This week’s Talkhouse episode is particularly exciting for me, since my two guests are also two of my favorite songwriters and singers ever—and they happen to be big fans of each other. It’s Matt Berninger and Eric Bachmann.

Eric Bachmann was a massive part of the ‘90s indie-rock explosion as the snarling voice behind Archers of Loaf, a band that released four incredible albums in its relatively short run. But Bachmann ditched most of that genre’s signifiers afterward and has spent the last quarter-century writing and recording incredible songs both under the name Crooked Fingers and under his own. His records are more in line with Tom Waits or Townes van Zandt than Pavement, and his deep catalog is worth a deep dive. You could start pretty much anywhere, so it might as well be with the brand new Crooked Fingers album Swet Deth. It’s the first time Bachmann has dusted off the Crooked Fingers name in more than a decade, I’m assuming because it sounds like a more fleshed-out affair. He also invited some friends to provide backing vocals on a few tracks, including Superchunk’s Mac McCaughan, Sharon Van Etten, and today’s other guest, Matt Berninger of the National. Check out the Crooked Fingers song “From All Ways,” which features Berninger’s distinctive voice.

Fun fact: When the first two Crooked Fingers albums were reissued about 10 years ago, Bachmann asked two of his biggest fans to write the liner notes. One, I’m proud to say, was me, and the other was Matt Berninger, the intense baritone frontman of the National. As you’ll hear in this chat, Matt has been a fan of Eric’s since back in the Archers days. Berninger of course has had an incredible career in roughly that same timeframe, leading the National from small clubs to huge venues with a thoroughly unimpeachable catalog of smart, dark songs. (These two have those adjectives very much in common.) In addition to fronting the National, Berninger has stepped away on occasion for side projects and solo records. His latest release under his own name is Get Sunk, which came out last year. He’s about to launch a Canadian tour followed by some dates in Europe—catch him if you can, the solo shows are a different vibe than the National, but no less worth your time.

This wide-ranging conversation starts with a discussion of Bachmann’s recent heart attack—a scary situation that’s going to keep him off the road for a bit. They also talk about working together on “From All Ways” and a semi-secretive new thing that they’ve been hatching for the past couple of years. It’s a great, deep chat between two guys who obviously admire each other’s music a lot. If you’re not familiar with both, I strongly suggest a deep dive. Enjoy the episode.

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast, and thanks to Eric Bachmann and Matt Berninger for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform, and check out all the other great shows in our network. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan, and the Talkhouse theme is composed and performed by the Range. See you next time!

Find more illuminating podcasts on the ⁠⁠⁠Talkhouse Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠.
Visit ⁠⁠⁠talkhouse.com⁠⁠⁠ to read essays, reviews, and more.
Follow @talkhouse on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Twitter (X)⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠.

On this week’s Talkhouse Podcast, we’ve got two women whose singing styles are similar in that they’re both absolutely singular, unmistakable, and wonderfully out of step—just don’t call it spoken-word. It’s Florence Shaw of Dry Cleaning and Sue Tompkins of Life Without Buildings.

As you’ll hear in this chat, Dry Cleaning sort of fell together in London around 2017, when the three instrumentalists approached their friend Florence Shaw to add some vocals to the music they had been writing. It turned out that Shaw’s approach—speaking dense, clearly crafted but never obvious words—slotted in perfectly with the sort of nervous-yet-precise songs they had been working on. By 2020, Dry Cleaning had signed with the venerated 4AD label and the next year released a debut album, New Long Leg, that earned comparisons to post-punk greats like Siouxsie and Sonic Youth. For their third studio album, Secret Love, Dry Cleaning worked with producer-slash-musician Cate Le Bon, and they stretched out a bit, mellowing the sharp corners a bit while Shaw experiments more with vocal melody than before. Check out “Cruise Ship Designer” from Secret Love right here.

Another person that eagle-eared listeners have compared Florence Shaw to is Sue Tompkins of the legendary, kinda-lost Scottish band Life Without Buildings. Life Without Buildings only released one album, Any Other City, in their brief three-year run, but it had a focused impact. Shaw remembers hearing the record as a teen. “It blew my mind that you could free yourself from the pressure of making traditional sense in lyrics,” she told the website Hearing Things, before mentioning that she’d love to meet Tompkins one day and thank her. Well, with some recent activity on the Life Without Buildings front—Tompkins contributed vocals to a new Sleaford Mods song, and the band just announced a couple of reunion shows—it seemed like the perfect time to get them together.

In this delightful chat, Tompkins and Shaw talk about the similar origins of their respective bands, how genuinely kind the dudes of Sleaford Mods are, and their understandable reticence about the term “spoken word.” They also chatted a bunch about the TV shows Dragons’ Den and Eastenders, but we had to trim that in the interest of time. Trust me, it was great. Enjoy. 

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast, and thanks to Sue Tompkins and Florence Shaw for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform and check out all the great stuff at Talkhouse.com. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan, and the Talkhouse theme is composed and performed by the Range. See you next time!

Find more illuminating podcasts on the ⁠⁠⁠Talkhouse Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠.
Visit ⁠⁠⁠talkhouse.com⁠⁠⁠ to read essays, reviews, and more.
Follow @talkhouse on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Twitter (X)⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠.

For this week's episode, we're going to skip the typical Talkhouse format and give you something that I think you're going to love just as much, about a band called The Fiery Furnaces. I bet a lot of you remember, but if you don't, The Fiery Furnaces are siblings, Matthew and Eleanor Friedberger from Oak Park, Illinois, not far from Chicago. Together they put out seven of the scrambliest, catchiest rock albums of the 2000s, and then they kind of disappeared. We got contacted by a longtime radio journalist and producer of the show Snap Judgment, John Fecile, who wanted to talk to Matt and Eleanor. It turns out he had spoken to them over a decade ago, and as he'll explain, there was a very specific reason he wanted to talk to them again.

Upcoming live shows for The Fiery Furnaces

Find more illuminating podcasts on the ⁠⁠⁠Talkhouse Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠.
Visit ⁠⁠⁠talkhouse.com⁠⁠⁠ to read essays, reviews, and more.
Follow @talkhouse on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Twitter (X)⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠.

I might overuse this word a little bit, but on this week’s episode we do have a true pair of legends in conversation on the Talkhouse Podcast this week: Maynard James Keenan and Daniel Ash.

Keenan is of course best known as the frontman for Tool, the dark, complex, heavy band he formed way back in 1990—but whose records come few and far between. Keenan is also the frontman for A Perfect Circle, but the reason for today’s chat is yet another band, Puscifer. This one started out almost as a solo outlet for Keenan’s weirdest ideas: There are comedic elements, and—fun fact—Puscifer actually sprung to life as part of a Mr. Show sketch. (Google it, it’s a good story.) But the band has evolved over the years into a steady trio that features Keenan alongside Carina Round and Mat Mitchell, and that more recently has explored Keenan’s most theatrical and straightforward impulses. It’s funny, weird, and heavy, and the brand new Puscifer album, Normal Isn’t, even nods sonically to UK post-punk bands like Killing Joke. Check out “Self Evident” right here.

The other half of today’s conversation is Daniel Ash, whose resume also includes a remarkable number of incredible bands, starting with Bauhaus, moving directly into Tones on Tail, and then heading for a long stretch into Love and Rockets, which reunited a couple of years ago for some very welcome shows. Ash’s guitar playing over the years has been quietly influential on a ton of players; you can hear his tone in a remarkable swath of bands. Last year, he released the first album by his latest outfit, Ashes & Diamonds. Called Ashes & Diamonds Are Forever, it’s unmistakably Ash’s voice and tone, though in some flashier dressing on occasion. It’s a lot of fun. Check out “Teenage Robots” right here.

In this wide-ranging conversation, Ash and Keenan talk about Keenan’s wine business—he was nice enough to send Ash some bottles in advance of this chat—as well as touring, making videos, and the seemingly inevitable future of AI. Ash thinks it’s going to be good, so even if he’s wrong, it’s nice to hear some optimism. Ash is also obsessed with motorcycles, leading Keenan to suggest an intervention. Enjoy.

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast, and thanks to Maynard James Keenan and Daniel Ash for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform and check out all the other great shows in our network. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan, and the Talkhouse theme is composed and performed by The Range. See you next time!

Find more illuminating podcasts on the ⁠⁠⁠Talkhouse Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠.
Visit ⁠⁠⁠talkhouse.com⁠⁠⁠ to read essays, reviews, and more.
Follow @talkhouse on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Twitter (X)⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠.

On this week’s Talkhouse Podcast, we’ve paired up two songwriters who love to wander musically but whose recordings are tough to mistake for anyone else’s. It’s Luke Temple and Will Westerman.

Temple has been making incredible records at a pretty solid clip since around 2005, first making a real splash as part of a trio called Here We Go Magic, whose four-album catalog is legendary in certain circles. But Temple has also recorded fantastic records under his own name, under the alias Art Feynman, and, more recently, with Luke Temple and the Cascading Moms. That name is a little funny, kind of like his music—there’s humor but also a little bit of menace hiding underneath sounds that sometimes flirt with ‘70s soft-rock in the best ways. Check out “Echo Park Donut,” which is out this month on the new Cascading Moms record, Hungry Animal.

The other half of today’s chat, Will Westerman, invited Temple to play on his 2023 album An Inbuilt Fault, and as you’ll hear they sound eager to meet and perhaps work together again. Westerman has been releasing music under his last name since 2020, crafting subtly mellow records that reveal something more intense when you listen to his lyrics. The third and latest Westerman album, A Jackal’s Wedding, came out last fall, and it’s another evolution in his sound—it’s been compared to mellow greats like Talk Talk, Tindersticks, and Nick Drake, so if those names mean anything to you—and they should—give it a shot. Check out “Mosquito” from A Jackal’s Wedding right here.

This conversation between Temple and Westerman may have been the furthest geographically we’ve ever recorded: Temple was at home in Los Angeles and Westerman at home in Milan, where he recently moved after spending several years in Greece. These two talk about being recently married, about growing as artists and perhaps tricking yourself in the process, and about the very different places they now live. Enjoy.

0:00 – Intro
2:35 – Start of the chat
4:35 – On Los Angeles and gentrification in Echo Park
9:39 – Westerman on Milan, Greece, and learning new languages
13:20 – On Luke Temple's new album, Hungry Animal
19:50 – On tricking yourself to keep the creative process fresh
20:57 – On art and "the capitalist need to innovate"
24:50 – Comparing the musical heritage between the US and UK
28:25 – On the spirit of Jazz and Hip-Hop
30:38 – How technology caused the death of regionalism

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast, and thanks to Will Westerman and Luke Temple for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please check out both of their great new records, and please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan and the Talkhouse theme is composed and performed by The Range. See you next time!

Find more illuminating podcasts on the ⁠⁠⁠Talkhouse Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠.
Visit ⁠⁠⁠talkhouse.com⁠⁠⁠ to read essays, reviews, and more.
Follow @talkhouse on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Twitter (X)⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠.