Therapist Uncensored Podcast

What can DBT teach us about turning invalidation into joy?

Dr. Kiki Fehling and Dr. Ann Kelley explore how chronic invalidation can shape emotional regulation, identity, and self-worth, particularly for queer and trans individuals. Through the lens of DBT and minority stress, Kiki shares how understanding these experiences can help challenge internalized shame, build resilience, and move beyond simply healing – and make space for authenticity, connection, and queer joy.

“Internalized shame can be healed through community.” – Dr. Kiki Fehling

Time Stamps for DBT, Chronic Invalidation & Finding Queer Joy with Dr. Kiki Fehling (309)

00:27 Understanding chronic invalidation in parenting and garegiving

02:05 How invalidations lead to emotional dysregulation

04:37 Adult consequences of childhood invalidations

07:00 Invalidation beyond parenting: Queer identity and society

07:59 Minority stress and queer invalidations

14:51 Using DBT to cultivate joy and self-acceptance

23:06 Practical tools: Books and resources for self-directed DBT

About our Guest – Dr. Kiki Fehling

Dr. Kiki Fehling (they/she) is a licensed psychologist, author, speaker, and DBT-Linehan-Board-certified expert in Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT). Passionate about making evidence-based mental health information more accessible, Kiki focuses on advocacy and public education around suicide prevention, LGBTQIA+ mental health, borderline personality disorder, and the intersection between mental health and heart health. She is the author of The LGBTQ+ Mental Health Workbook, Self-Directed DBT Skills, and DBT Cards for Coping Skills. Kiki also writes the Substack newsletter How To Queer Joy, volunteers for nonprofits Now Matters Now and WomenHeart, and shares DBT skills and mental health resources across social media @dbtkiki. 

 

Resources for DBT, Chronic Invalidation & Finding Queer Joy with Dr. Kiki Fehling (309)

The LGBTQ+ Mental Health Workbook – Find Emotional Resilience, Self-Love, and Queer Joy with Dialectical Behavior Therapy

Self-Directed DBT Skills – 3-Month DBT Workbook

Dr. Kiki Fehling’s website – Additional resources and information

@DBTKiKi – Official Instagram page

@DBTKIKI – Official Tiktok page

DBTKIKI – Official Youtube channel

How To Queer Joy – Official Substack

Please support our sponsors – they keep our podcast free and accessible to all! 

SimplePractice is an all-in-one EHR that is HIPPA compliant, HITRUST certified and built specifically for therapists.

If you are ready to simplify the business side of your practice, now is a great time to try SimplePractice. Start with a 7-day free trial, then get 50% off your first three months. Just go to SimplePractice.com to claim the offer.

Beyond Attachment Styles –

Deepening Security in Yourself and Fostering More Secure Relationships

Course available NOW!  

Everyone’s heard of attachment styles – but you likely don’t know how much the popular press gets wrong and what the science actually says about how to improve your relationships long term (including how we relate to ourselves).  This course is for anyone wanting to more deeply understand attachment (styles vs patterns), unconscious defense activation patterns, implicit scripts… and most importantly, what to do once you do get activated!  Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s! Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout.

As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

Or read Marriott & Kelley’s critically-acclaimed book, Secure Relating: Holding Your Own in an Insecure World (HarperCollins,2023)

for the most in-depth experience of learning about Secure Relating.

Therapists love it, but it’s accessible to everyone.  If you aren’t interested in the background science, just start at Part 2 and we will be talking directly to you – it’s fun!

 

You are invited! 

OK for those of you who refer others to the pod, use it professionally or consider yourself nerdy and just love this stuff, hello, you are our people!

Join our exclusive community to get exclusive bonus content, early access to training opportunities, and an ad-free, private podcast feed. It’s this warm community that allows us to donate half of all corportate profits to mental health access for marginalized peoples.  Sign up for our premium Neuronerd plan!! Click here!!

Patreon/Supercast Special Release –

Bonus – Inside Mentalization-Based Treatment: Borderline & Narcissistic Personality Disorders (308)

This is a sneak peek of our 2nd episode with Robert Drozek – available only on our Premium Supercast and Patreon platforms. For as little as $5/month you can have access to special releases like this one, first-to-know about upcoming events and discounts and an ad-free feed.

Click here to join & finish the episode!!

What is mentalization—and how can therapists put it into practice?

In this more clinical deep dive, Robert Drozek explores Mentalization-Based Treatment (MBT) and how strengthening our ability to understand our own and others’ inner experiences can support the treatment of borderline and narcissistic personality disorders. Sue and Robert explore the common breakdowns in mentalizing, the power of curiosity over certainty, and practical strategies clinicians can use to help clients build greater emotional awareness, empathy, and connection.

“The hallmark of mentalization is curiosity.” – Robert Drozek

Time Stamps for Bonus – Inside Mentalization-Based Treatment: Borderline & Narcissistic Personality Disorders (308)

01:20 – What is Mentalization?

02:56 – The origins of Mentalization-Based Treatment (MBT)

08:07 – Curiosity vs. certainty: What healthy mentalizing looks like

12:43 – When thoughts feel like facts: Psychic equivalence

18:14 – Certainty in Borderline Personality Disorder

19:34 – Certainty in Narcissism

20:58 – The “not-knowing” stance in MBT

26:00 – How Mentalization-Based treatment actually works

32:32 – MBT vs. DBT: What’s the difference?

35:11 – How therapists can incorporate Mentalization into practice

42:25 – Identifying Mentalizing blind spots

About our Guest – Robert P. Drozek, LICSW

Robert P. Drozek, LICSW is the clinical director of the Mentalization-Based Treatment Clinic at McLean Hospital in Belmont, Massachusetts. He is a teaching associate in the Department of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, specializing in the treatment of

borderline personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, and post-traumatic stress disorder. He is author of the new book, Mentalization: Utilizing reflection to heal from borderline personality disorder—the first book for the general public about

mentalization-based treatment.

 

Resources for Bonus – Inside Mentalization-Based Treatment: Borderline & Narcissistic Personality Disorders (308)

Download page – Free worksheets and handouts from the book

Mentalization Coach App – The first mobile app for mentalization and MBT,

adapted from my new book

Mentalization-based Treatment for Pathological Narcissism – Handbook

Mentalization-based Treatment for Personality Disorders –  A practical guide

Cambridge Guide to Mentalization-based Treatment

Anna Freud Centre – The worldwide training hub for mentalization-based

treatment (MBT)

NPD Basic – A free guide to narcissistic personality disorder

MBT Boston – An organization that Robert co-founded that offers training and supervision to clinicians across the world in MBT

MBT USA – A consortium of MBT providers and organizations in the United

Robert’s faculty page at McLean Hospital

Instagram: @RobertDrozek

Mentalization book – Facebook page

Get your copy of Mentalization: Utilizing Reflection to Heal from Borderline Personality Disorder here!

 

 

Looking for our Upcoming Events? Click here!!

Our Beyond Attachment Styles course is available NOW!

Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others.

Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout

Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s – Next Q&A Coming September 2026!

Borderline and narcissism are often misunderstood—this episode separates myth from science.

Robert Drozek explores the science behind borderline and narcissistic personality disorders, separating common myths from current research. Together, he and Sue discuss attachment, trauma, genetics, parenting, evidence-based treatments, and why understanding these often misunderstood conditions can bring greater compassion, hope, and healthier relationships.

“Borderline is driven by a need to reconnect.” – Robert P. Drozek, LICSW

Time Stamps for Challenging Personalities: Understanding Borderline & Narcissism with Robert Drozek (307)

04:14 Understanding Borderline Personality Disorder

09:25 Exploring narcissism: Definitions and types

13:29 Vulnerable vs. grandiose narcissism

18:56 The Role of Trauma in Personality Disorders

22:25 Parenting styles and their impact on narcissism

27:14 Identifying narcissism in relationships

33:34 Treatment approaches for Borderline Personality Disorder

36:45 Challenges in treating Narcissistic Personality Disorder

45:26 Navigating relationships with narcissistic individuals

About our Guest – Robert P. Drozek, LICSW

Robert P. Drozek, LICSW is the clinical director of the Mentalization-Based Treatment Clinic at McLean Hospital in Belmont, Massachusetts. He is a teaching associate in the Department of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, specializing in the treatment of

borderline personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, and post-traumatic stress disorder. He is author of the new book, Mentalization: Utilizing reflection to heal from borderline personality disorder—the first book for the general public about

mentalization-based treatment.

 

Resources for Challenging Personalities: Understanding Borderline & Narcissism with Robert Drozek (307)

Download page – Free worksheets and handouts from the book

Mentalization Coach App – The first mobile app for mentalization and MBT,

adapted from my new book

Mentalization-based Treatment for Pathological Narcissism – Handbook

Mentalization-based Treatment for Personality Disorders–  A practical guide

Cambridge Guide to Mentalization-based Treatment

Anna Freud Centre – The worldwide training hub for mentalization-based

treatment (MBT)

NPD Basic – A free guide to narcissistic personality disorder

MBT Boston – An organization that Robert co-founded that offers training and supervision to clinicians across the world in MBT

MBT USA – A consortium of MBT providers and organizations in the United

Robert’s faculty page at McLean Hospital

Instagram: @RobertDrozek

Mentalization book – Facebook page

Get your copy of Mentalization: Utilizing Reflection to Heal from Borderline Personality Disorder here!

Please support our sponsors – they keep our podcast free and accessible to all! 

SimplePractice is an all-in-one EHR that is HIPPA compliant, HITRUST certified and built specifically for therapists.

If you are ready to simplify the business side of your practice, now is a great time to try SimplePractice. Start with a 7-day free trial, then get 50% off your first three months. Just go to SimplePractice.com to claim the offer.

Beyond Attachment Styles –

Deepening Security in Yourself and Fostering More Secure Relationships

Course available NOW!  

Everyone’s heard of attachment styles – but you likely don’t know how much the popular press gets wrong and what the science actually says about how to improve your relationships long term (including how we relate to ourselves).  This course is for anyone wanting to more deeply understand attachment (styles vs patterns), unconscious defense activation patterns, implicit scripts… and most importantly, what to do once you do get activated!  Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s! Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout.

As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

Or read Marriott & Kelley’s critically-acclaimed book, Secure Relating: Holding Your Own in an Insecure World (HarperCollins,2023)

for the most in-depth experience of learning about Secure Relating.

Therapists love it, but it’s accessible to everyone.  If you aren’t interested in the background science, just start at Part 2 and we will be talking directly to you – it’s fun!

 

You are invited! 

OK for those of you who refer others to the pod, use it professionally or consider yourself nerdy and just love this stuff, hello, you are our people!

Join our exclusive community to get exclusive bonus content, early access to training opportunities, and an ad-free, private podcast feed. It’s this warm community that allows us to donate half of all corportate profits to mental health access for marginalized peoples.  Sign up for our premium Neuronerd plan!! Click here!!

What if your relationship struggles aren’t just personal—but shaped by the systems you live in?

Together, Akilah Riley Richardson and Sue Marriott challenge traditional Western therapy models, discuss the importance of “responsible externalizing,” and explore how therapists can create space for grief, imagination, and genuine connection instead of trying to fix what cannot simply be solved.

Akilah Riley Richardson returns to explore how systemic trauma quietly shapes our relationships, nervous systems, and sense of self. Drawing from her work with marginalized couples, she introduces the concept of relational privilege and explains why healing cannot be separated from the social systems we live in.

“The experiences of marginalized people are often devalued even by helping professionals, and this text is my dedication to carving a space where we, as practitioners, can ensure that we are of service in a way that is rooted in the realities of our people. It is also a reflection of my obligation to marginalized couples and individuals. My sincere wish for them all is that they are never harmed in therapy but instead uplifted. ” – Akilah Riley-Richardson

Time Stamps for The Hidden Weight of Systemic Trauma: How Oppression Shapes Our Relationships with Akilah Riley-Richardson (306)

02:05 The systemic trauma faced by marginalized couples

04:12 Barriers for global south therapists and voices

08:00 Fear, threat, and navigating space as a marginalized person

09:57 Relational privilege and systemic influence

12:03 The role of colonial Christianity in systemic trauma

17:50 The danger of model dogmatism in therapy

20:06 Neurobiological threat and systemic trauma

22:02 Practicing responsible externalizing in therapy

26:07 The grief of systemic trauma and loss

28:04 The limitations of evidence-based models

29:58 The need for imagination and community in healing

31:47 The concept of lostness and liminality in trauma

34:06 The danger of attachment to models and frameworks

35:59 Differentiating systemic from relational reality

38:10 Yoruba and indigenous healing traditions

41:59 The influence of colonialism and imperialism on therapy

43:53 Acknowledge systemic trauma in therapist self-awareness

49:57 Habits of survival and internalized oppression

51:52 The impact of systemic trauma on body and mind

About our Guest – Akilah Riley-Richardson, MSW, CCTP

Akilah Riley-Richardson, MSW, CCTP is a dedicated therapist, educator, and researcher with several years of experience. As a Certified Clinical Trauma Professional and STAIR Method Certified clinician, Akilah specializes in relational healing, focusing on the needs of couples and individuals, both in the Caribbean and internationally.Her expertise extends to supporting sexual and racial minorities, ensuring that her practice is inclusive and culturally sensitive. Akilah’s commitment to education and advocacy has led her to consult for esteemed organizations, including NASTAD, I-TECH, CARPHA, and CVC, where she has made significant contributions to healthcare training and community support. She has presented her work at various prestigious forums, such as the Psychotherapy Networker Symposium, Academy of Therapy Wisdom, Harvard Medical School, Chicago School of Psychology and the Black Mental Health Symposium. From 2012 to 2025, she served as a Social Work Educator at the University of the Southern Caribbean, mentoring future leaders in the field. Currently, she serves as a Research Supervisor and Examiner at the University of the West Indies Global Campus. As the founder of the Relational Healing Institute and the creator of the P.R.I.D.E. model, Akilah is passionate about advancing relational therapies. Her book, “Marginalized Couples in Therapy” reflects this passion.

Resources for The Hidden Weight of Systemic Trauma: How Oppression Shapes Our Relationships with Akilah Riley-Richardson (306)

Marginalized Couples in Therapy: Interventions for Healing from Systemic Trauma – Akilah’s new book, use this link for 20% off. Get your copy today!

Akilah’s website  – Resources, opportunities and additional information

Please support our sponsors – they keep our podcast free and accessible to all! 

SimplePractice is an all-in-one EHR that is HIPPA compliant, HITRUST certified and built specifically for therapists.

If you are ready to simplify the business side of your practice, now is a great time to try SimplePractice. Start with a 7-day free trial, then get 50% off your first three months. Just go to SimplePractice.com to claim the offer.

Beyond Attachment Styles –

Deepening Security in Yourself and Fostering More Secure Relationships

Course available NOW!  

Everyone’s heard of attachment styles – but you likely don’t know how much the popular press gets wrong and what the science actually says about how to improve your relationships long term (including how we relate to ourselves).  This course is for anyone wanting to more deeply understand attachment (styles vs patterns), unconscious defense activation patterns, implicit scripts… and most importantly, what to do once you do get activated!  Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s! Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout.

As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

Or read Marriott & Kelley’s critically-acclaimed book, Secure Relating: Holding Your Own in an Insecure World (HarperCollins,2023)

for the most in-depth experience of learning about Secure Relating.

Therapists love it, but it’s accessible to everyone.  If you aren’t interested in the background science, just start at Part 2 and we will be talking directly to you – it’s fun!

 

You are invited! 

OK for those of you who refer others to the pod, use it professionally or consider yourself nerdy and just love this stuff, hello, you are our people!

Join our exclusive community to get exclusive bonus content, early access to training opportunities, and an ad-free, private podcast feed. It’s this warm community that allows us to donate half of all corportate profits to mental health access for marginalized peoples.  Sign up for our premium Neuronerd plan!! Click here!!

The leadership skill that changes everything

Special guest Amy Holloway explores how trust shapes thriving communities, effective leadership, and long-term economic growth. Drawing from interviews with leaders across the United States, Amy shares the simple but powerful behaviors that build trust, strengthen collaboration, and create meaningful change – whether in organizations, neighborhoods, or entire cities. Together, Amy and Ann discuss the leadership traits that foster connection, the behaviors that erode trust, and why building community starts with intentional relationships.

“Trust-building is within everyone’s power.” – Amy Holloway

Time Stamps for Trust Builders: Leadership That Creates Change with Amy Holloway (305)

00:15 Importance of establishing trust in communities

07:32 Trust breakers vs. trust builders

14:18 Characteristics of effective community leaders

19:52 Insights from interviews with local leaders

25:33 Crisis management and community recovery

About our Guest – Amy Holloway, President of Aha!

Amy Holloway is the president of Aha!, an economic development consultancy specializing in strategic planning, and a practitioner-in-residence with Harvard Kennedy School’s Reimagining the Economy Project. Over a 30-year career, she has helped more than 200 places design strategies for long-term economic growth and community prosperity. A retired partner at Ernst & Young and leader of the firms national economic development practice, Amy previously founded and led Avalanche Consulting, one of the nation’s leading strategic planning firms. With her upbeat, welcoming style, she brings local leaders together through conversations that spark “aha!” moments and shared action. Her new #1 bestselling book, Trust Builders: The Key To Thriving Communities, is the culmination of Amy’s career-long belief that trust among local leaders is the single most powerful force shaping thriving communities. Amy lives in Asheville, North Carolina. In her free time, she enjoys hiking, painting, and teaching Pilates.

Resources for Trust Builders: Leadership That Creates Change with Amy Holloway (305)

Trust Builders: The Key to Thriving Communities – Get your copy of Amy’s book today!!

Aha! Advisor – Aha! is where leaders unite to make a lasting impact, learn more

Trust Strengths Assessment – Take your assessment here!!

Reimagining the Economy Project, Harvard Kennedy School – Rohan Sandhu, Tony Ditta, Monserrat Magana Ocana

The Social Capital Atlas – Raj Chetty, Matthew O. Jackson, Theresa Kuchler, Johannes Stroebel. Abigail Hiller, Sarah Oppenheimer * The Opportunity Insights Team

Beyond Attachment Styles course is available NOW!  

Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others. Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s! Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

 

 

Get your copy of Secure Relating here!!