Draft Zero: a screenwriting podcast

Listen to learn the emotional impact of revealing secrets vs discovering them.

In this episode Stu, Chas and Mel apply the Landmark–Hidden–Secret framework (from DZ-126) across two very different genres: the thriller SIDE EFFECTS (2013) and the tragicomic pilot of SHRINKING.

SIDE EFFECTS is a film of two genres. The first half plays as a drama about depression and over-medication; the second half is a 90s thriller. We talk about how every time Dr Jonathan Banks uncovers a new piece of information, it puts him in danger — and that danger motivates him to uncover more.

In SHRINKING, we see a different use of the framework. "What are psychologists but detectives of the mind?" Rather than the cost of finding secrets, it's about the cost of sharing them. Chas also comes out of this with a paradigm he's been building toward (but we're keeping what that is secret until you listen!)

And inevitably we go on some tangents: whether SIDE EFFECTS should even have been an erotic thriller!

As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes.

LIKE THIS EPISODE?

Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon.

Join the discussion on Reddit.

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Send us feedback.

Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre and Lily.

→ Read the transcript for this episode.

———

"Every time Dr Jonathan Banks uncovers a new piece of information, it puts him in danger -- and that danger motivates him to uncover more." — Chas Fisher @ 00:26:04

———

CHAPTERS

00:00:00 – Cold Open

00:00:16 – Intro: Secrets and Clues 2 - the Cost of Revelation

00:01:03 – Previously on Secrets and Clues (Recap of Part 1)

00:04:24 – Flashforward Insights

00:09:29 – SIDE EFFECTS

00:20:18 – › The First Half: Push and Misdirection

00:28:41 – › Genre Shift: Banks Becomes the Detective

00:48:06 – SHRINKING

01:00:02 – › The Inverted Paradigm: When Everyone Knows

01:07:47 – › The Cost of Sharing

01:22:02 – › Power Through Honest Acknowledgement

01:35:37 – The Key Tool Chas Learned

01:39:28 – Key Learnings & Wrap Up

01:50:48 – Many Thanks to our Patrons!

FILMS

SIDE EFFECTS (2013) — (w) Scott Z Burns (d) Steven Soderbergh

SHOWS

SHRINKING 1x1 "Coin Flip" — James Ponsoldt (d), Brett Goldstein, Jason Segel, Bill Lawrence (w)

SCRIPTS

Study the script: SIDE EFFECTS (2013) — Scott Z Burns

LINKS

Website: DIY & dragons: Landmark, Hidden, Secret

Website: The Alexandrian » Advanced Node-Based Design

Website: Ascii Dreams: The Quest for Quests

Website: Ascii Dreams: The Quest for Quests

EPISODES IN THE SECRETS AND CLUES SERIES

DZ-126: Secrets and Clues

DZ-127: Secrets and Clues 2 - The Cost of Revelation

RELATED EPISODES

DZ-90: Setups & Payoffs in EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE ALL AT ONCE

———

More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podchaser.

We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter.

Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2026/dz-127/

Download episode: DZ-127.mp3

Listen if you want to understand how hidden information drives character motivation and plot structure!

“Getting information puts your character in danger. And danger rewards your character with information." — One of three ideas we steal from game design in this episode. In this two part series, we talk about how secrets, clues and hidden information motivate characters and may (or may not) help you plot from a character perspective. Part One (this episode) looks at WAKE UP DEAD MAN; while Part Two looks at SIDE EFFECTS, and the pilot episode of SHRINKING.

The other two (related) ideas are:

Landmark information (characters just have it), Secret (they know it's there, need to unlock it), and Hidden (invisible until they pay the cost)

Narrative velocity — are characters pushed forward or are they pulled forward?

To that end, in this episode Stu, Chas and Mel start with the murder mystery (ostensibly the easier deep-dive): Rian Johnson’s WAKE UP DEAD MAN. But this is a complex film made even more complex by being a dual-protagonist film. Uhuh. Benoit Blanc is pulled through the story by his need to solve the case; Father Judd pushed through, against his will, to prove his innocence. Breaking down how that plays out — and why it matters for the kind of escalation each character can sustain — is the heart of the episode.

And inevitably we go on some tangents: pointers, plants, and underpinnings (from our Everything Everywhere All At Once episode) fair play in locked-room mysteries, Narrative POV (as always) and node-based plotting and what dungeon-crawl game design has to do with writing a web of clues.

As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes.

LIKE THIS EPISODE?

Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon.

Join the discussion on Reddit.

Watch and comment on YouTube.

Send us feedback.

Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre and Lily.

→ Read the transcript for this episode.

———

"Information puts players in danger and danger rewards characters with information, right? That's kind of the loop with like thriller game design." — Stu Willis @ 00:05:40

———

CHAPTERS

00:00:00 – Cold Open

00:00:18 – What do we mean by Secrets and Clues?

00:04:17 – › Landmark, hidden, and secret information defined

00:08:10 – › Narrative velocity as push and pull for characters

00:13:22 – WAKE UP DEAD MAN

00:17:56 – › Key learnings preview: push-pull and narrative velocity

00:32:33 – › Mapping character awareness of secrets through WAKE UP DEAD MAN

00:58:21 – › Distinguishing secrets, clues, and hidden information

01:13:17 – › Benoit Blanc's character arc and the choice of grace

01:22:50 – KEY LEARNINGS & WRAP UP

01:24:22 – › Character drives how secrets are hidden and revealed

01:25:34 – › Narrative velocity and escalating stakes reveal character

FILMS

WAKE UP DEAD MAN (2025) — (w) Rian Johnson

SCRIPTS

Study the script: WAKE UP DEAD MAN (2025) — Rian Johnson

LINKS

Read: DIY & dragons: Landmark, Hidden, Secret

Read: The Alexandrian » Advanced Node-Based Design

Read: Ascii Dreams: The Quest for Quests (Part 1)

Read: Ascii Dreams: The Quest for Quests (Part 2)

Read: Mel's KNIVES OUT: A Rose by Any Other Name Would Not Clue Us In

EPISODES IN THE SECRETS AND CLUES SERIES

DZ-126: Secrets and Clues

DZ-127: Secrets and Clues 2 - The Cost of Revelation

RELATED EPISODES

DZ-90: Setups & Payoffs in EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE ALL AT ONCE

———

More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podchaser.

We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter.

Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2026/dz-126/

Listen if you want to understand how narrative POV, screenplay format, and dialogue craft can elevate a contained biopic into an Oscar-nominated film

BLUE MOON is a talky, period-drama that film about an obscure songer-writer in the 1940s. Yet, it attracted world-class talent AND Academy Award nominations, including for it's script. Join Chas & Mel as they explore how narrative POV, interweaving relationships, hooky dialogue, and even the screenplay format itself make the script for BLUE MOON so great.

While Stu is still on show and we are between the 2026 Oscar nominations and the actual ceremony, our patreons selected BLUE MOON for this one-shot and boy are Mel and Chas glad they did. They dive into many lessons learned in previous episodes, like our character-driven episode… or analysis of French scenes in Adolescence… or the story-telling power that comes from the audience knowing the ending from biopics.

As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes.

LIKE THIS EPISODE?

Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon.

Watch and comment on YouTube.

Send us feedback.

Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre and Lily.

→ Read the transcript for this episode.

———

"When I say rules, I mean the prescriptive rules of when someone posts something on screenwriting and everyone goes *Oh, you broke all the rules*. I'm saying this is good. I'm saying most of those rules are suggestions or most of those rules are given to you when you are learning how to write for a reason." — Mel Killingsworth @ 00:38:42

———

CHAPTERS

00:00:00 – Cold Open

00:00:32 – What Makes a Contained Biopic Compelling?

00:02:19 – Flashforward Insights: POV, French scenes, dialogue craft, and structure

00:04:32 – BLUE MOON: Plot Summary and Structural Overview

00:08:00 – › How script format signals emotional breaks in a real-time story

00:13:34 – Controlling narrative POV

00:17:13 – › Tragedy versus the life he would have chosen

00:24:09 – › Narrative POV as the film's core structural tool

00:27:49 – Using screenplay FORMAT to reflect the emotional story

00:31:56 – › French scenes and real-time spatial staging

00:35:40 – › How rule-breaking formatting signals emotional truth

00:39:27 – Interweaving relationships: Hart's Relationships as the A, B and C Stories

00:44:50 – › Hart and Rogers: the collision of artistic integrity and commercial success

00:49:14 – › Hart and Elizabeth: desire, repetition, and the just-not-that-way callback

00:53:08 – › The bar regulars as audience surrogates and mirror to Hart's self-awareness

00:56:46 – Repetition and pop culture references in dialogue

00:59:48 – › Repetition as lyrical structure in dialogue craft

01:03:49 – › Tonal variety and mixing registers in witty scripts

01:07:54 – Key Learnings

01:09:48 – › The hidden craft beneath real-time, single-location scripts

01:13:42 – › How cultural touchstones establish stakes without exposition

01:16:02 – Thanks patreons and Oscar-nominated listener!

FILMS

BLUE MOON (2026) — (w) Robert Kaplow (d) Richard Linklater

LINKS

Read: BLUE MOON - Scene Headings Breakdown

RELATED EPISODES

DZ-01: Do Screenplay Gurus win you Oscars?

DZ-68: Using POV to structure KNIVES OUT

DZ-118: ADOLESCENCE -- How Questions Create Dramatic Tension

DZ-90: Setups & Payoffs in EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE ALL AT ONCE

DZ-35: Driving Characters or Character Driven?

DZ-63: Tools for Better Dialogue 2 - Hook and Eye

———

More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podchaser.

We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter.

Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2026/dz-125/

Listen if you need audiences to root for characters who do terrible things

Mel and Chas continue to explore what Noir (the genre) can teach writers of all other genres. In particular:

How to keep the audience on side of characters doing reprehensible things;

How to control your audience understanding of those reprehensible actions; and

Distinguishing between characters undergoing transformative arcs against discovering their true natures

In finding the common craft tools of Noir over 100 years, this Part 2 looks at two modern noirs – DEVIL IN A BLUE DRESS (1995) and WOMAN OF THE HOUR (2024) – after Part 1 looked at the classic DOUBLE INDEMNITY and THE LONG GOODBYE.

Despite Chas claiming to have edited this episode it was, in fact, Chris Walker who saved the day and got this done. Thanks Chris.

As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes.

LIKE THIS EPISODE?

Watch and comment on YouTube.

Send us feedback.

Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre and Lily.

→ Read the transcript for this episode.

———

"I think these films have got really strong control over the questions and that's how they get us to follow, compelling us to follow characters who are doing terrible things." — Chas Fisher @ 01:06:08

———

CHAPTERS

00:00:00 – Using noir as a lens

00:01:56 – DEVIL IN A BLUE DRESS

00:07:06 – › Period setting, race, and noir's embedded worldview

00:10:30 – › Voiceover as access to morally compromised decisions

00:22:02 – › How the film justifies rooting for Easy's transgressions

00:29:09 – › Character worldview versus film worldview in noir

00:31:33 – WOMAN OF THE HOUR

00:37:15 – › Why WOMAN OF THE HOUR qualifies as noir

00:43:25 – › The system as collective villain enabling the killer

00:53:12 – › Depiction without endorsement, empathy without sympathy

01:04:30 – Key Learnings

01:08:50 – Thank you Patreons!

FILMS

DEVIL IN A BLUE DRESS (1995) — (w) Carl Franklin, Walter Mosley (d) Carl Franklin

WOMAN OF THE HOUR (2024) — (w) Ian Mcdonald (d) Anna Kendrick

LINKS

Shot Zero: Noir shots in WOMAN OF THE HOUR

EPISODES IN THE NOIR SERIES

DZ-123: Flawed Characters in Noir

DZ-124: Making the Despicable Compelling

RELATED EPISODES

DZ-123: Flawed Characters in Noir

DZ-03: Making Unlikeable Protagonists Compelling

DZ-110: Voiceover

———

More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podchaser.

We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter.

Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2026/dz-124/

Listen if you want to write morally compromised characters without endorsing their choices.

In this two part series, Mel and Chas use Noir (the genre) as a lens to interrogate flawed characters. How can characters doing reprehensible things still engage audiences? How can you ensure representation isn’t endorsement? And whether these characters undergo transformative arcs, or simply reveal their true natures?

Part 1 (DZ-123) focuses on two (now classic) noirs: DOUBLE INDEMNITY and THE LONG GOODBYE.

While Part 2 (DZ-124) looks at two more contemporary examples DEVIL IN A BLUE DRESS and WOMAN OF THE HOUR.

Despite Chas claiming to have edited this episode it was, in fact, Chris Walker who saved the day and got this done by the end of 2025. Thanks Chris.

As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes.

LIKE THIS EPISODE?

Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon.

Watch and comment on YouTube.

Send us feedback.

Thanks to our Patrons, especially Lily, Paulo, Alexandre, Malay, Jennifer, Thomas, Randy, Jesse, Sandra, Theis and Khrob.

→ Read the transcript for this episode.

———

"This is the philosophical question, right? When you get drunk, do you change what you do or do you simply allow your inhibitions to fall and do what you would normally want to do?" — Mel Killingsworth @ 00:42:04

———

CHAPTERS

00:00:00 – Cold Open

00:00:17 – Flawed Characters and Noir

00:03:06 – › Writing morally compromised characters without endorsing their worldview

00:08:41 – › Defining film noir as genre, style, and worldview

00:14:27 – › Noir's reach across decades of screenwriting

00:16:40 – DOUBLE INDEMNITY

00:21:41 – › Diegetic confession and its structural function

00:27:17 – › Telling the audience the crime upfront removes justification burden

00:32:24 – › How everyman framing sustains complicity in a morally bankrupt protagonist

00:41:43 – › Whether morally compromised characters genuinely change or self-reveal

00:49:17 – › Film worldview versus character desire: crime without endorsement

00:53:38 – THE LONG GOODBYE

01:00:17 – › Save the cat: establishing a morally complex protagonist

01:06:26 – › Transgression, personal code, and the inevitability of noir failure

01:14:13 – › Character change versus worldview shift at the ending

01:21:15 – Wrap Up and Key Learnings

FILMS

DOUBLE INDEMNITY (1944) — (w) Raymond Chandler, James M Cain, Billy Wilder (d) Billy Wilder

THE LONG GOODBYE (1973) — (w) Leigh Brackett, Raymond Chandler (d) Robert Altman

SCRIPTS

Study the script: THE LONG GOODBYE (1973) — Leigh Brackett, Raymond Chandler

SHOT ZERO DEEP DIVES

Blocking a Sneak: DOUBLE INDEMNITY

LINKS

Read: Mel's A Brief History of Queer Coding in Film Part 1

EPISODES IN THE NOIR SERIES

DZ-123: Flawed Characters in Noir

DZ-124: Making the Despicable Compelling

———

More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podchaser.

We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter.

Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2025/dz-123/