Documentary First

Who finishes your film if you can't?

This episode is about how to make a documentary with no film school. Andre N. Jackson had never made a film. He had twenty years in technology and security, an idea that arrived while he was sitting in a barber's chair, and no way into the industry. He finished the film anyway, and he came on the show with three lessons for other filmmakers. Two more came out while we were talking.

In Episode 285, Christian sits down with first-time filmmaker Andre N. Jackson to talk about "Beyond Banners," his film about the basketball program at Gwynn Park High School in Prince George's County, Maryland. Over a twenty-year run the team reached twelve state championships and won more than any high school in the state. The film starts there and ends up somewhere else entirely.

Andre puts it plainly: "I actually learned about filmmaking through making a film." The spine of the conversation is what it takes to make a documentary when nothing is set up in your favor. Andre leaned on the research and analysis skills he built as an intelligence analyst, cold-called a Hall of Fame coach, funded it through a fiscal sponsor, used AI as a second brain, and kept going through two heart attacks that put him in an emergency room twice in three days. Along the way the film became a story about stewardship, about the people who stayed, and about what the commercialization of youth sports is doing to community public schools.

In this episode, you'll learn:
How an idea that arrived in a barber's chair became a finished film with no film school behind it
Why twenty years as an intelligence analyst turned out to be a filmmaking advantage
Why Andre deliberately hired a crew who knew nothing about Gwynn Park, the region, or basketball
The cold call that landed Hall of Fame coach Tubby Smith
What a fiscal sponsor is, and how the Southern Documentary Fund made donors want to give
How a three-hour conversation in a Brooklyn coffee shop with writer-director Marquis Smalls became his production blueprint
What two heart attacks in three days taught him about succession, and what he changed the week he got out
How AI reenacted a co-protagonist who had died and left almost no footage behind
Why announcing the film on Instagram is the thing that made him finish it
What NIL deals, unrestricted transfers, and year-round travel ball are doing to community public schools

THE FIVE LESSONS
Lean into your superpowers
Get comfortable taking calculated risks
Get creative about filling gaps
Plan for your absence
Use AI as a second brain

CHAPTERS
0:00 No Film School, No Connections
3:16 How Do You Fund a First Documentary?
6:09 When a Team Becomes a Town
11:53 The Cost of Commercializing Youth Sports
18:58 Planning for Your Own Absence
24:37 AI as a Second Brain
29:16 Cold Calling a Hall of Fame Coach
33:45 Why the Collective Should Matter

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

How do you make a documentary with no film school?
Lean into the skills you already have and hire for the ones you do not. Andre N. Jackson spent twenty years as an intelligence analyst, so he built his film on research and relationship building, the two things he was already good at. Then he deliberately recruited crew members who covered his gaps in craft and experience. He learned filmmaking by making a film, not before making one.

How do you fund a documentary with no industry money?
A fiscal sponsor is the most common route. It is a 501(c)(3) that sits between your project and your donors, so contributions become tax deductible and donors have a reason to say yes. Andre used the Southern Documentary Fund. You apply, you are accepted, you onboard, and then you can offer donors a tax break for backing your film. He combined that with personal funds and direct fundraising.

How do you get well-known people to be in your documentary?
Cold call them, and be specific about who you both know. Andre landed Hall of Fame coach Tubby Smith by reaching out directly and naming a mutual connection to establish trust. He got Wake Forest star Randolph Childress through a warm introduction from a Gwynn Park alumnus. The pattern is the same either way: ask, and use the relationships your relationships already have.

What happens to your documentary if you cannot finish it?
Plan for your absence before you need to. After two heart attacks during production, Andre started documenting what had only ever lived in his head and briefed his executive producer and his producer on the next steps, so the film could be completed whether or not he was there. Contingency planning in film usually means backup drives. It should also mean succession.

Can AI help you make your first documentary?
Andre used it three ways: to learn the end-to-end production process he never went to film school for, to generate an animated reenactment of a co-protagonist who had died and left almost no footage behind, and as a second brain that challenged his assumptions and pressure-tested his interview questions. He was clear it supplemented human mentorship rather than replacing it, and credits Brooklyn writer-director Marquis Smalls, who drew him a blueprint over three hours.
DOCUVIEW DÉJÀ VU PICKS
"Undefeated" (2011), directed by Daniel Lindsay and T.J. Martin. Winner of the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature. Andre's direct inspiration for making "Beyond Banners."
"The Last Dance" (2020), ESPN and Netflix. Andre is a Michael Jordan fan and names it as the film that came before Undefeated for him.

SPONSORED BY
This episode is brought to you by Virgil Films Entertainment. With over 25 years of distribution experience, Virgil has released Super Size Me, the Oscar-nominated Restrepo, Forks Over Knives, To Die For, Seven Yards, and Speed is Expensive. If you are a filmmaker having trouble with distribution, talk to Virgil. https://virgilfilms.com

ABOUT THE GUEST
Andre N. Jackson is a first-time documentary filmmaker based in Fairfax, Virginia. He wrote and directed "Beyond Banners." He spent twenty years in the private sector in technology and security, including work at Capital One and Amazon and a brief stint at the Department of Homeland Security, and he worked as an intelligence analyst on cybersecurity and terrorism issues related to national security. He is a 1998 graduate of Gwynn Park High School, the subject of his film. He came to filmmaking with no film school and no industry connections.

ABOUT THE FILM
"Beyond Banners" is directed by Andre N. Jackson and follows the basketball program at Gwynn Park High School in Prince George's County, Maryland. In the words of the film's own logline: a son returns to his alma mater to carry his father's coaching legacy, only to discover that the winning tradition he grew up in was built for a world that no longer exists.

The film follows an intertwined father-and-son story, Howard Matthews and Steve Matthews, and widens into a portrait of what community-based youth sports used to be and what the commercialization of high school athletics is doing to it. Produced and edited by Daniel Bowie, with animation and motion design by Henry Gretzinger. Historian Ida E. Jones of Morgan State University asks the question Andre names as his favorite line in the film: "What is it about community that makes us community?" It also features Hall of Fame coach Tubby Smith, Wake Forest star Randolph Childress, who broke ACC records, sportswriter Neil Greenberger, who spent twenty years at The Washington Post and led its local sports section, and archival footage The film is headed to the festival circuit.

Website: https://beyondbannersdocumentary.com
Instagram: @beyondbannersdocumentary

ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST
Documentary First is a weekly podcast about the craft, the business, and the truth of filmmaking. Host Christian Taylor is an award-winning documentary filmmaker,...

When did your audience stop being people and become a number?

Most independent films and podcasts do not fail because the work is bad. They fail because no one ever felt like they belonged to them. This Deep Dive is about how to build an audience for your documentary before it is ever released, and the one ingredient that decides whether people stay with what you make.
In this Deep Dive on Documentary First Episode 284 with Dutch filmmaker Jonathan de Jong, host Christian Taylor takes the idea at the heart of his film “Human Forever,” the most-watched human interest documentary in Dutch cinema history, and follows it somewhere unexpected: the same thing that makes dementia care humane is the thing that built his audience.
The spine of the episode is a single word, belonging. Jonathan says the most dangerous part of dementia is not the diagnosis, it is the feeling of not belonging. Christian tests that idea against her own father’s move into memory care this month, then turns it on filmmakers through Martin Buber’s 1923 book “I and Thou” and the difference between treating a person as an “It” and meeting them as a “Thou.” The through line: build belonging before you build buzz.
In this episode, Christian explores:
Why the feeling of not belonging is the most dangerous part of dementia, in Jonathan de Jong’s own words
The one ingredient that decides whether people stay with what you make
How Jonathan built an audience for “Human Forever” before a single frame was shot
Why building a movement beat marketing a film
What belonging looks like in one real room, on her father’s move day
Martin Buber’s “I and Thou” and the difference between an It and a Thou
How filmmaking goes wrong the moment your audience becomes a number
Why you invite people to belong instead of reaching for them
The question to ask about anyone you put in front of your camera
What a documentary about dementia can teach any filmmaker about reach

CHAPTERS
0:00 The Secret That Keeps an Audience
2:04 The Most Dangerous Feeling
5:16 The People and the Plan
7:53 Build Belonging Before Buzz
11:26 Meet Them, Don’t Aim

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
How do you build an audience for a documentary before it is released? You build belonging first. Jonathan de Jong built a movement around “Human Forever” before the film existed, a real person at the center and bestselling books out in the world, so audiences already felt part of something by release. The lesson for any filmmaker: make people feel they belong to what you are doing long before you ask them to watch, buy, or share it.
What is the best way to market a documentary with no budget? Stop marketing and start including. Invite people into the mission instead of aiming promotion at them. When an audience feels seen and part of the story, they carry it for you. Belonging spreads a film further than any ad spend, which is why Jonathan filled theaters for a film about dementia without a marketing war chest.
What is Martin Buber’s “I and Thou” about? “I and Thou,” published in 1923, describes two ways of relating to another person. You can treat someone as an “It,” a thing to manage, a number, a problem to handle. Or you can meet them as a “Thou,” a whole person, encountered directly. Buber argued that real life is found in the “Thou,” in genuine meeting rather than use.
Why do people stop watching independent films and podcasts? Because they can feel when a creator is aiming something at them instead of making something for them. The moment an audience becomes a view count or a click to convert, the work loses the sense that it was made for real people. People stay when they feel met and included, and they drift when they feel handled.
ABOUT THE FILMS AND TOPIC
“Human Forever” is a documentary directed by Dutch filmmaker Jonathan de Jong through SUPER7EVEN Productions. It follows the young dementia-care nurse Teun Toebes as he lives among and travels the world alongside people with dementia, and it became the most-watched human interest documentary in Dutch cinema history. The film is one piece of a larger movement that also includes Teun’s bestselling books and the Article 25 Foundation he co-founded.
Jonathan de Jong is a Dutch filmmaker and author who builds socially focused stories, and the guest on Documentary First Episode 284. SUPER7EVEN Productions: https://supersevenproductions.com. Film: https://human-forever.com.
Teun Toebes is a nurse, humanitarian activist, and bestselling author who has spent years living inside dementia wards around the world. https://www.teuntoebes.com.
ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST: THE DEEP DIVE
Each week, host Christian Taylor takes an insight from a recent Documentary First filmmaker interview and follows it through literature, philosophy, faith, and her own life. Christian is an award-winning documentary filmmaker, actor, and voice actor, and the director of “The Girl Who Wore Freedom.” The Deep Dive is built for documentary filmmakers, lovers of story, and anyone who wants to think more deeply about the work of making things.
RESOURCES MENTIONED
“Human Forever” (film), Jonathan de Jong, SUPER7EVEN Productions: https://human-forever.com
SUPER7EVEN Productions: https://supersevenproductions.com
Teun Toebes: https://www.teuntoebes.com
Martin Buber, “I and Thou” (Ich und Du), 1923

Documentary First Episode 284 with Jonathan de Jong: https://pod.fo/e/50bde1
LISTEN AND FOLLOW
Listen and subscribe wherever you get podcasts: https://podfollow.com/documentary-first Watch on YouTube: @DocumentaryFirst
SUPPORT THE SHOW
Join our community on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/documentaryfirst
CONNECT WITH DOCUMENTARY FIRST
All platforms: https://linktr.ee/doc1st Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor

How do you fund a documentary when the whole industry says no?

How do you fund a documentary without film funds, grants, or a commissioning broadcaster, and still reach a huge audience? Dutch filmmaker Jonathan de Jong did exactly that with Human Forever, the most-watched human interest documentary in Dutch cinema history. The government pulled his funding two and a half years into production, and he still finished the film, built a movement, and put it in cinemas around the world.
In Episode 284 of Documentary First, Christian Taylor sits down with Jonathan de Jong, director of Human Forever and founder of SUPER7EVEN Productions, to talk about how independent filmmakers actually fund, build an audience for, get access for, and produce a documentary that people see.
Jonathan's whole approach starts from one idea: build the audience before the film exists. He grew a following through a bestselling book, The Housemates, a touring theater show, and his protagonist, the young nurse Teun Toebes, before the movie ever premiered. He funds outside the traditional market by partnering with mission-aligned organizations, he earns fly-on-the-wall access by investing years of unhurried time, and he made a hard subject impossible to look away from. In his words, “we made dementia sexy.”
In this episode, you'll learn:
How to fund a documentary without relying on film funds, grants, or a broadcaster
How to build an audience for your film before it is released
How to get access to hospitals, care facilities, and other closed institutions
How to produce a documentary across multiple countries
Why Jonathan approaches every film as a product, not only a passion project
How partnering with mission-aligned organizations can both fund and distribute your film
The “be Switzerland” method for directing a subject to get honest, real reactions
How to keep a film earning and touring years after its release
Why treating a serious subject with warmth beats treating it as only serious
What the record-breaking success of Human Forever teaches about impact over views

CHAPTERS
0:00 Breaking In Without Film School
5:06 Finding a Story Worth Telling
7:24 Build the Audience Before Release
12:21 When the Funding Fell Through
15:18 You Can't Buy Happiness
20:33 What Moldova Taught Him
26:47 Making the Camera Invisible
30:30 Directing a Neutral Protagonist
37:17 How Do You Get Access?
42:28 Where Does the Money Come From?
47:38 He Made Dementia Sexy
Frequently Asked Questions
How do you fund a documentary without grants or film funds?
Partner with mission-aligned organizations. Jonathan de Jong funds his films by teaming with social organizations, foundations, and local and national governments that care about the subject. Each contributes a smaller amount, and together they add up to a full budget. Because those partners also have large audiences, they become the film's first ambassadors, so the same partnership that funds the film also helps get it seen.
How do you get access to film inside hospitals or care facilities?
Invest time and build trust before the camera rolls. Jonathan spent years present without filming, and left the camera in the room so people grew used to it. Family members had to sign consent, and because his protagonist Teun Toebes was a trusted figure in dementia care, facilities welcomed the crew. Access came from relationships and patience, not from official fixers.
How do you build an audience for a documentary before it comes out?
Start years early and grow the audience alongside the film. Jonathan built a following through a bestselling book, a touring theater show, and social media, and he turned his protagonist into a recognized voice in the field. By the time Human Forever premiered, the audience and a network of ambassadors already existed, so the film became, in his words, the cherry on top.
How do you produce a documentary in multiple countries?
Work through the local community, not official fixers. Jonathan connects with people already working in the subject area, who bring in local governments and organizations to arrange permits and logistics. He keeps a small, lean crew that can move fast, and he builds a network of ambassadors in each country. That is how he filmed across eleven countries during a pandemic.
DocuView Déjà Vu
Jonathan's documentary pick is Searching for Sugar Man, which he calls one of the best documentaries ever made and a reminder of what the power of storytelling can do.
Sponsored by Virgil Films Entertainment
This episode is brought to you by Virgil Films Entertainment. With over 25 years of distribution experience, Virgil Films helps filmmakers get their work in front of audiences on every major platform. Learn more at https://www.virgilfilms.com/.
About the Guest
Jonathan de Jong is a Dutch documentary filmmaker and the founder of SUPER7EVEN Productions. He directs socially driven films that reach big audiences, and he is best known for Human Forever, the most-watched human interest documentary in Dutch cinema history. Website: https://supersevenproductions.com
SUPER7EVEN Productions is Jonathan de Jong's Netherlands-based company, making impact-driven documentaries on pressing social issues. Human Forever premiered around a 2023 G20 summit and is now used in more than 40 universities, including Yale and Oxford, with a US broadcast coming to PBS. Jonathan's next films explore strong communities and addiction.
About Human Forever and Teun Toebes
Human Forever follows Teun Toebes, a young care ethicist dubbed the “Greta Thunberg of healthcare,” who moved into the closed ward of a nursing home at 21 and traveled across four continents and eleven countries to ask how we can give people living with dementia a better quality of life. Teun's book, The Housemates, was a number one bestseller in Denmark and has been translated into English, German, Italian, and Arabic. Website: https://www.teuntoebes.com.
About Documentary First
Documentary First is a weekly podcast about the craft, business, and truth of documentary filmmaking, hosted by filmmaker Christian Taylor. Across nearly 300 episodes, the guest chair has held everyone from Ken Burns to first-time independents. Documentary First ranks in the top 5 percent of all podcasts worldwide on Listen Notes, is the number one documentary film podcast in the US on MillionPodcasts, and holds a 4.8 out of 5 on Apple Podcasts. Christian Taylor is a documentary filmmaker, actor, and voice actor, and the director of The Girl Who Wore Freedom.
Resources Mentioned
Human Forever (film): https://www.teuntoebes.com/human-forever
SUPER7EVEN Productions: https://supersevenproductions.com
Teun Toebes: https://www.teuntoebes.com
The Housemates, book by Teun Toebes https://septemberpublishing.org/product/the-housemates-pb/
Searching for Sugar Man (documentary)
Virgil Films Entertainment: https://virgilfilms.com

Connect With the Guests
Jonathan de Jong: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/7onathandejong, LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-de-jong-07b670b
Teun Toebes: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/teuntoebes, LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/teuntoebes

Listen and Follow Documentary First
Listen to this episode: https://podfollow.com/documentary-first
Follow the show: https://podfollow.com/documentary-first
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@documentaryfirst

Support the Show
Patreon:...

Who believed in you before you could believe in yourself?

In this Deep Dive, documentary filmmaker Christian Taylor makes a quiet case that we rarely overcome self-doubt on our own. Almost no one finishes anything hard alone. Someone has to see it in you first. This is a reflection on the power of belief, on the kind of encouragement that shows up right when you are ready to quit, and on how a few honest words can help a person keep going and change the whole outcome of a life.
This Deep Dive grows out of Documentary First Episode 283 with Joe Amodei, the veteran film distributor who, after forty-five years of releasing other people's films, finally directed his own: Cold War in Philly. The seed is a story Joe told about his friend Morgan Spurlock, who looked at him and said, "Yes, you are," when Joe insisted he was not a director. Morgan died before filming began. Joe made the film anyway.
From there, Christian follows the same pattern through her own life and through stories you already know: the producer Sandy Gordon, who told her she could tell her own story; C.S. Lewis's belief that helped J.R.R. Tolkien finish The Lord of the Rings; Emmy Werner's forty-year Kauai study on the power of one caring adult; Fred Shero and the 1976 Philadelphia Flyers; the BELIEVE sign in Ted Lasso; and the Christmas her young son Hunter talked her out of quitting The Girl Who Wore Freedom. The throughline: belief usually arrives from outside before it grows from within, it works by being repeated at the moment you want to give up, and it is something you can hand another person for the price of a sentence.
In this episode, Christian explores:
Why we so often cannot see in ourselves what other people can see plainly
The difference between belief that gets you to the starting line and belief that gets you to the finish
Why encouragement has to be repeated, not announced once
How Morgan Spurlock's belief outlived him and finished Joe Amodei's first film
What C.S. Lewis's encouragement had to do with Tolkien finishing The Lord of the Rings
The single factor that most helped at-risk children thrive in the forty-year Kauai study
What the 1976 Flyers and the BELIEVE sign in Ted Lasso have in common
The Christmas her son Hunter believed in her when she was ready to walk away from her film
The strange math of belief: nearly free to give, and one of the most powerful things we do
Two things to do this week: remember who believed in you, and become that person for someone else

CHAPTERS
0:00 Before You Believe in Yourself
2:49 Someone Has to See It First
5:37 Encouragement When You Want to Quit
8:34 Belief That Outlives Us
11:14 How to Believe in Others

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
Why is it important to have someone believe in you?
Because most of us cannot see our own potential clearly. We are too close to our own doubts. Belief from a credible person on the outside fills that gap and raises both effort and persistence, especially at the moment someone is ready to quit. Research on self-efficacy and on childhood resilience points the same way: one steady person who believes in you can change what you attempt and what you actually finish.
How do you keep going when you want to quit a creative project?
You borrow belief until you can make your own. Nearly everyone who finishes a hard project hits a wall where they are sure it is over. What carries people through is usually not one pep talk but someone who reminds them, again and again, that they can do it. Christian Taylor finished her documentary after her young son repeated his belief in her until she could go back to work.
How do you believe in yourself when no one else does?
You usually do not have to do it entirely alone. The honest move this episode offers is to remember that someone has already believed in you, even if you have forgotten them, and to borrow that belief until it becomes your own. Recall what they saw in you. And if you feel truly without support right now, become the encourager you needed: the same words that steady other people can steady you when you say them to yourself.
Can one person really change your life?
Yes. In Emmy Werner's forty-year Kauai study of nearly 700 children, about a third of the high-risk kids grew into capable, caring adults, and the strongest protective factor was having at least one steady adult who believed in them. One was enough. The same pattern shows up in creative work, where a single believer often decides whether a project is abandoned or finished.
What does it mean that belief can outlive the believer?
It means the encouragement someone gives you keeps working even after they are gone. Morgan Spurlock told Joe Amodei he could direct, then died before filming started, and Joe finished the film anyway. Fred Shero's line to the Flyers, "Win today and we'll walk together forever," names the same truth: the people who believe in us walk with us long after the moment itself has passed.
ABOUT THE FILMS AND WORKS IN THIS EPISODE
Cold War in Philly, directed by Joe Amodei (Virgil Films): the story of the night in 1976 the Philadelphia Flyers beat the Soviet Red Army. https://coldwarinphilly.com
The Girl Who Wore Freedom, directed by Christian Taylor: the documentary referenced throughout this episode.
Also referenced: La La Land (2016, written and directed by Damien Chazelle); Man of La Mancha; Ted Lasso (Apple TV+); The Lord of the Rings and the friendship of J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis; Tuesdays with Morrie by Mitch Albom; and "Wind Beneath My Wings," popularized by Bette Midler.
ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST: THE DEEP DIVE
Documentary First: The Deep Dive is the companion to Documentary First, where host Christian Taylor takes one insight from a recent conversation and follows it wherever it leads. Christian is a documentary filmmaker, actor, and voice actor, and the director of The Girl Who Wore Freedom and Heroes of Carentan.
RESOURCES MENTIONED
Documentary First Episode 283 with Joe Amodei: [add episode URL]
Cold War in Philly: https://coldwarinphilly.com
Virgil Films: https://virgilfilms.com
Emmy Werner, the Kauai Longitudinal Study
The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
Tuesdays with Morrie, by Mitch Albom
La La Land (2016)
Man of La Mancha
Ted Lasso (Apple TV+)

LISTEN AND FOLLOW
Listen on any podcast app: https://podfollow.com/documentary-first
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@documentaryfirst
Support the show on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/DocumentaryFirst
CONNECT
Documentary First Linktree: https://linktr.ee/doc1st
Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor

What does it really take to make a documentary that finds an audience and earns its money back?
“You have to have the passion for the story and the passion to do the work, because it will not be easy.”
— Joe Amodei

If you want to make a documentary, the hardest questions are not the ones about cameras. They are about access, money, and whether anyone will ever watch it. In Documentary First Episode 283, a distributor who has spent more than forty-five years releasing films, and has now directed his first one, gives 7 filmmaking tips that cut straight to those questions, from getting access to a famous subject to setting a budget that can actually earn its money back.
In Episode 283, Christian Taylor sits down with Joe Amodei, the founder of Virgil Films and a film distributor of more than forty-five years, who has released hundreds of documentaries including Super Size Me, the Oscar-nominated Restrepo, and Forks Over Knives. After decades of releasing other people's films and learning from the mistakes he watched filmmakers make, Joe finally made his own: Cold War in Philly, the story of the night in 1976 when the Philadelphia Flyers beat the Soviet Red Army. He came to find out whether his own advice would hold up.
The throughline is simple and a little daring: a career distributor became a first-time director, determined not to repeat the mistakes he had watched other filmmakers make. Along the way he explains how he got access to a legendary NHL team through its alumni association, why he kept the budget under $250,000, why a built-in audience mattered so much, and a first documentary that sold out theaters across Philadelphia. Running underneath it is the Cold War itself: the KGB minders, the players who hated the government but not each other, and the heroes Joe got on camera before they were gone.
IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:
How to get access to famous people and organizations, through the alumni association
What Joe did once he was in the room: prove yourself, be yourself, and be honest
The deals he had to clear before filming, the team, the owner, and the league, and that they took nearly a year
Why a built-in audience is what decides whether an indie film succeeds
What to budget for a documentary, and why Joe will not spend more than $250,000 on an indie doc
How Joe made sure to get the players on camera, including two who passed away after their interviews
Why his first film took two and a half years, and what he would do differently next time
The qualities that make a film distributor worth trusting: answering calls, paying on time, being honest
The two things Joe says it takes to finish a film
Why Joe believes the work is worth it, from the players' gratitude to a film that outlives everyone

CHAPTERS
0:00 Becoming a First-Time Director
2:42 How Do You Get Access?
9:33 Capturing Heroes in Time
13:04 Structuring the Documentary
21:20 The Grind of Production
28:11 Selling Out Theaters
38:32 What Makes a Film Succeed?
41:37 What Should a Doc Budget Be?
44:48 How Do You Keep Going?
47:38 Is Filmmaking Worth It?
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
How do you get access to famous people or organizations for a documentary?
Go through the alumni association. Joe Amodei got the Philadelphia Flyers by working with the team's alumni group, which controls appearances for former players. Nearly every major sports team and league has one, usually run by one or two people. Find that person, earn their trust, and they can open the door to the whole roster. Then be ready to handle the separate contracts with the team, the owner, and the league.
How much does it cost to make a documentary?
For an independent documentary, Joe Amodei's rule is not to spend more than $250,000. The reasoning is about return: know what the film can realistically earn back before you set the documentary budget, and understand the market you are spending against. A built-in audience and disciplined spending give a documentary a real chance to make its money back.
What makes an independent film succeed in today's market?
A built-in audience. Joe Amodei says a film does best when people already care about the subject before it exists. Cold War in Philly had Flyers fans waiting for it, and the sold-out theatrical run followed. If you cannot name the audience for your idea, Joe's view is you might not want to make it. When you can, the film has a base to launch from and can cross over to viewers beyond the core, people who told Joe they were not even hockey fans.
What does it take to succeed as a documentary filmmaker?
Two things, according to Joe Amodei: passion and willpower. Passion for the story carries you through a process that will not be easy, and willpower keeps you going when the edit stalls and the work is not moving as fast as you wanted. You owe it to your investors, your subjects, and the people who gave up their time to sit for you. His advice is simple: you cannot give up.
What should you look for in a film distributor?
Christian describes what makes Joe a distributor worth trusting: he answers calls and emails, pays on time, sends the reports that are due, and is honest. She notes that this basic reliability is rarer than it should be in the business, and it is exactly what separates a distributor you can trust from one you cannot.
DOCUVIEW DÉJÀ VU PICKS
In the DocuView Déjà Vu segment, Joe Amodei highlighted two documentaries from the Virgil Films slate: She Was Here, about the young actress from Poltergeist, and Broken Brothers, directed by Jeff Levine, a future Documentary First guest. Both are available on Amazon and Apple TV.
SPONSORED BY
Virgil Films Entertainment. With more than twenty-five years of distribution experience, Virgil releases documentaries and indie features and works directly with every major platform. Learn more at https://virgilfilms.com.
ABOUT JOE AMODEI
Joe Amodei is the founder of Virgil Films and a film distributor with more than forty-five years in the industry. He started in retail, worked in live entertainment for Ted Turner and Barry Diller, and went on to release hundreds of documentaries, including Super Size Me, the Oscar-nominated Restrepo, and Forks Over Knives. Cold War in Philly is his directorial debut, the story of the 1976 game in which the Philadelphia Flyers beat the Soviet Red Army. Learn more at https://coldwarinphilly.com.
ABOUT VIRGIL FILMS
Virgil Films and Entertainment is an independent distributor known for documentaries and indie features, with a catalog that includes Super Size Me, Restrepo, Forks Over Knives, To Die For, Seven Yards, and Speed is Expensive. The company works directly with every major transactional platform and offers filmmakers a range of deals, from standard distribution to service arrangements. Recent and upcoming releases include She Was Here and Broken Brothers. Learn more at https://virgilfilms.com.
ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST
Documentary First is the show where we dig into the craft of filmmaking, the business, and the truth of it. Host Christian Taylor is a documentary filmmaker, actor, and voice actor, and the director of The Girl Who Wore Freedom and Heroes of Carentan. Each week she sits down with the people who make documentaries and pulls out what actually works.
RESOURCES MENTIONED
Cold War in Philly (film site): https://coldwarinphilly.com/
Cold War in Philly is available to rent or buy on Amazon, Apple TV, Vudu, and YouTube
The Girl Who Wore Freedom (Christian Taylor, distributed by Virgil Films)
Films referenced: Super Size Me, Restrepo, Forks Over Knives

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