What should we really aim for in nature conservation—and who gets to decide?
In this episode of Inside Biodiversity, science writer Emma Marris challenges long-held ideas about wilderness, ecosystem integrity, and invasive species. She argues that conservation is driven by human values—not objective science—and calls for a more democratic, transparent approach to setting goals for nature. If you’ve ever wondered whether “naturalness” is an illusion or why change in ecosystems isn’t always a loss, this thought-provoking conversation will make you see biodiversity in a whole new light.
Related links:
Emma Marris’s popular science books
https://emmamarris.com/books/
Perspective paper “Ecosystem integrity is neither real nor valuable” (2021)
https://conbio.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/csp2.411
Media article “Inevitable Planetary Doom Has Been Exaggerated“ (2021)
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/02/other-side-catastrophe/617865/
Media article “Nature Doesn’t Care Where a Species Is From“ (2024)
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2024/02/invasive-species-large-herbivores-plants/677325/
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32:56
How Has Biodiversity Changed Over Millions of Years?
Why has biodiversity decreased over the past 20 million years? Why did large mammals, such as giant sloths, tapirs, and mammoths, go extinct at the end of the last ice age, some 50,000 to 10,000 years ago? Why are there many fewer mammal species today than there “should be”?
In this episode, we speak with Prof. Susanne Fritz, research group head at iDiv and the Friedrich Schiller University Jena, about biodiversity change over very long time scales. She shares insights into how past extinction events shaped today’s ecosystems — and what that might mean for the future.
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How Concerning Is Biodiversity Change?
While some biodiversity change trends are deeply worrying, such as the decline of common bird species in North America, others offer hope, such as the recovery of rare birds: “I've seen in my lifetime species that were locally extinct come back, and rivers that were dead come back to life,” says Inside Biodiversity guest Henrique Pereira. “And that's because there's been so much positive development from environmental policy in Europe and in other countries in the world.”
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Is Biodiversity Loss Always Bad?
Is biodiversity loss always bad? What if cutting down an old-growth forest actually increases the number of species? According to biodiversity researcher Jonathan Chase, “You can have huge levels of biodiversity in habitats that are strongly degraded by people.”
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How Much Are Humans Changing Biodiversity?
In this episode of Inside Biodiversity, we talk to Andrew Gonzalez about how biodiversity is changing – and how humans are driving this process. Gonzalez discusses shifts in species composition, critiques conclusions drawn from time-series analyses we covered in episode one, and calls for better data to link changes to human impacts. Drawing on climate science, he proposes a “detection and attribution” approach and urges scientists to focus on solutions. A thought-provoking look at the science and communication of biodiversity change.
What do we really know about biodiversity? Inside Biodiversity brings you in-depth conversations with leading researchers tackling the most pressing and controversial questions in biodiversity science. Each episode features experts who challenge common narratives, reveal surprising trends, and explore solutions for conservation.
From species extinctions to ecosystem resilience, we go beyond the headlines to uncover the complexities of nature. Whether you're a scientist, conservationist, or just curious about the state of life on Earth, this podcast will change the way you see biodiversity.
Inside Biodiversity is hosted by the German Centre for Integrative Biodiversity Research (iDiv)
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